BRAND SECRETS AND STRATEGIES

PODCAST #201

Hello and thank you for joining us today. This is the Brand Secrets and Strategies Podcast #201

Welcome to the Brand Secrets and Strategies podcast where the focus is on empowering brands and raising the bar.

I’m your host Dan Lohman. This weekly show is dedicated to getting your brand on the shelf and keeping it there.

Get ready to learn actionable insights and strategic solutions to grow your brand and save you valuable time and money.

LETS ROLL UP OUR SLEEVES AND GET STARTED!

Dan: Today, we're going to explore how to explode yourselves during a pandemic. And it brought in the perfect person to help address your biggest challenges.

Adam: It's kind of understand the unique challenges and circumstances, like looking at this again with a fresh set of eyes in terms of what it means to grow a young brand and in this climate and all the shifting landscape strategies that go along with that. So I think we're all rolling with this day by day, week by week, trying to make the best of, of what this looks like and constantly kind of shuffling and reprioritizing where the priorities are, but it's fascinating, I think, and also trying to find the silver linings the way to be relevant and resonate in the retail landscape right now. So my goal today is to really try to give a fresh perspective in terms of, you know, where I think folks who are doing what I do and, and even myself could be of assistance to brands.

Dan: Ready to hear more? Let's roll the intro. Hello, and thank you for joining us today. This is the brand secrets and strategies podcast session 201, welcome to the brand secrets and strategies podcast, where the focus is on empowering brands and raising the bar. I'm your host, Dan Lohman. This show is dedicated to getting your brand on the shelf and keeping it there. Get ready to learn actionable insights and strategic solutions to grow your brand and save you valuable time and money. Let's roll up our sleeves and get started.

Dan: Welcome brands are panicking right now. And for good reason, the rugs been pulled out from underneath all of us. There's been a seismic shift and in retail and the way that consumers buy products, which means that we need to rethink how we get our products, aren't store shelves and into the hands of shoppers. It's only natural for people to want to do everything on their own for them to take responsibility and think that they're the only ones that can juggle everything that is required to keep your brand afloat, but there might be a better way. And it may take you taking a deep breath and taking a step back for a minute. Sometimes something as simple as listening to this podcast, or maybe taking out a free course or talking to some other people in your network might help give you a fresh perspective, a fresh insight as to, into different strategies.

Dan: You could be thinking about to grow and scale your brand, perhaps even different ways for you to turn this situation into something positive. That's what the focus of this conversation is about today, about identifying creative strategies to help your brand grow and scale by leveraging the strength and the wisdom and the insights of other people in the industry who have had different experiences, experts that have worked with brands of all different sizes and all different industries and all different categories, their unique perspective can help you identify creative strategies to grow and scale that could even give you a significant and sustainable competitive advantage. Before I go any further, I want to remind you that there's a free downloadable guide for you at the end of every podcast episode. Always try to include one easy to download quick to digest strategy that you can insight up and make your own one that you can use to grow sustainable sales and compete more effectively with. Remember the goal here is to get your product on the more store shelves and into the hands of more shoppers.

Dan: If you like the podcast, do me a favor and share it with a friend, help me raise the bar in our industry with all the disruption in our industry. I thought the best thing I could do for you is to make my proven strategies to maximize trade marketing ROI free, to help you eliminate waste, trade spending and help you get more runway out of your available resources. Be sure to listen to the end where I'll show the coupon code that you need to get this valuable course for free today's podcast episode is actually recording from one of the free weekly webinars that I had been doing. I launched the free weekly webinar series to help brands impacted by COVID to learn more about them, go to the events tab on my website. So now here is this week's podcast. So today we're going to talk about how to explode sales during a pandemic.

Dan: And I want to introduce Adam to you. He's got a tremendous wealth of experience, not only in big mainstream, CPG but also in natural and working for a Japanese company. We'll talk about that in a minute. Adam is a friend I've known him for quite a while and let him tell you about his background, but what's great about Adam and his Eddie. He has a really unique perspective that we're going to be talking about today, about how you can leverage his insights and how you can use that to effectively grow and scale your grant brand. So, Adam, please talk to tell us a little bit about yourself and your journey to where you're at your new consulting firm and a little bit about why you started it and so on.

Adam: Wonderful. Well, so glad to be here, Dan. I know it's been a long time coming. We've been talking about, uh, getting together in this capacity for some time, so really appreciate the opportunity, first of all. So yeah, it's been, um, really a kind of eventful year for myself on top of, uh, the whole industry, of course, and, um, made an interesting career pivot in terms of leaving a longterm, uh, multinational big, uh, you know, CPG company with, uh, you know, in North America where I was managing sales for a long time and then really pivoting out to, um, a consulting path. So, uh, my new company is called summit sales consulting, um, doing a outsource sales representation, if you want to call it fractional sales management, and then also advising and more just kind of early-stage, uh, emerging brand, um, guidance as well. So it really can take different forms depending on the need of the, uh, the brand, or the supplier.

Adam: Um, but, but it's, I think very timely right now, uh, given what's happening in the industry, some of the changing investor dynamics and, and challenges facing emerging brands. So having been on kind of the big CPG side of this, um, you know, managing a pretty large team and a large portfolio of business for a global company. And then also earlier in my career, having with a startup, I kind of understand both sides and the unique challenges and circumstances that go with each of those dynamics. So it's great to be back it's, it's wonderful to kind of be looking at this again with a fresh set of eyes in terms of what it means to grow a young brand and in this climate and, and all of the, um, you know, shifting, um, kind of landscape, um, strategies that go along with that. So I think we're all rolling with this day by day, week by week, trying to make the best of, of, um, what this looks like and constantly kind of shuffling and reprioritizing, uh, where the priorities are, but, but, um, it's, it's fascinating, I think, and also trying to find the silver linings the way to be relevant and resonate, uh, in the retail landscape right now.

Adam: So, um, again, a lot of this has been discussed in various capacities and other webinars and podcasts. In the last few months, my goal today is to really try to give a fresh perspective in terms of, you know, where I think, uh, folks who are doing what I do and, and even myself could be of assistance to brands.

Dan: Thank you for sharing that. And on the note, we're going to be better. We're going to be different now. It's no, there is, there are a lot of people talking about things. And one of the reasons why I do this is these webinars here is all the content I've put to put out there is because I want to differentiate what we do here, as opposed to everyone else. I mean, there's so much value in everything everyone does, but my point is that we want to give you those skills so that you can use those to hit the ground running. And let me frame it this way. So part of this conversation is about how to use it as, as, as Adam said, or fractional or someone else to help you grow your brand. There are a lot of people in this industry, which I have tremendous respect for that have done amazing things, growing a brand, but let's face it.

Dan: You can't be an expert in everything. And if you've got someone that is been with you from the beginning, and they've learned how to do things over time, that's great. But sometimes bringing in that ex that, that unique position, that unique, uh, mindset that outside view of the world and all that experience is the best way to accelerate your brand. And that's what we're really focused on. And so my background, I was classically trained in category management by Unilever, Kimberly Clark, et cetera, worked for Borden. Uh, I created the spins distribution tracker. So I used to work for them. I'm the one that got them to start selling retailer and store-level data. Now, the reason why that's important is because the big brands go out of their way to train and develop their people. That is some big brands, and that is one of the biggest benefits of working for them.

Dan: So now take that experience and then make it fit in our world. And natural. And what's unique about Adam is kind of a similar path, but yet he's not only got that natural experience ITTO in, but he's also got that experience from a multinational corporation, specifically Japanese corporation. And we were talking about this earlier. One of the things that's great about Japanese companies, if you don't know a lot about them is that American companies are more focused on the individual. If I could say this, Adam, let me know what you think. Whereas Japanese companies are more focused on the collective or the company or the society or the family or whatever. And the reason that matters is because they're able to muster all their resources, all their strategies around a single idea, or thought and execute at a much higher level as a result. So for example, I talk about on the Turkey, Salesforce strategies course that if I tell you a story and you tell someone else and they tell someone else in Psalm, by the time that circums background to me, it's unrecognizable, we'll think about the way that your brand message, your brand stories being communicated throughout your entire sales team.

Dan: Now compare that with the US format to the Japanese way of doing things. And I can see, I think you might see the difference, and this is honestly the Achilles heel of every brand, Adam, your thoughts.

Adam: Yeah, absolutely. This is a fascinating cultural study, I think in global business and the way that, you know, different cultural companies go-to-market and also the dynamics of what that means for, you know, working as an American in a big Japanese CPG, that's been operating in the US as a satellite, kind of a wholly-owned subsidiary of the parent company back in Japan as is the case with Etowah. And so the learnings and kind of the, I joke that its, the MBA and international business that I feel like I got five times over has been extremely valuable. Um, and I think one of the key takeaways for me running sales there and having a pretty large team underneath me, remote separate from the Brooklyn headquarter office, um, you know, is that there's a desire and, and I think to need in some ways to create a culture that's, that's nestled within the larger organization, that's a little bit different and needs to be able to operate as more of a Western American style sales culture, as far as representing the brand to buyers, to brokers at trade shows.

Adam: But then there's also very much the Japanese side and you try to take the good and the bad of both. And hopefully, Mel dos to, you know, kind of have a perfect partnership. And obviously, there are challenges that go with it. There are a lot of, um, you know, to take out a quote lost in translation type things that, uh, are of course endemic to any type of a multinational company, but it was a really interesting study and also how to, um, kind of bridge that divide between, um, being an officer of the company and getting to really, uh, represent the sales team, uh, to the Japanese side of the company, and then bring some of the positive Japanese side of the talent and the synergies and the production efficiencies, and just all of the benefits that we have from the massive scale in Japan and East Asia, and how to really use those as a, as a tool to, to wield here in the US market.

Adam: So, um, it's, uh, it's amazing. And it's also just something I think is pretty unique in our industry, the way that, that, uh, the landscape looked for EtoIn and, and, you know, bringing green tea and matcha, and a lot of these trends, which when I joined back in 2011 were still fairly early stage. If you look at the, you know, ready to drink iced tea market, I think, uh, you know, about 10 years ago, it was 90% sweetened teas. Um, that's starting to shift now of course, with sugar becoming more of kind of public enemy number one, and the consumer awareness of that, uh, evolving. So, um, again, we were probably ahead of the curve in a lot of ways. We were also one of them, probably the very first company to bring, ready to drink macho to the US market in a major way with the macho love brand.

Adam: Um, and that was interesting because it's kind of a more functional, um, I would say the trendy version of green tea, and in some ways, it really accelerated the green tea market and gave it a more functional face, which is really critical right now. So a lot of learnings, there are a lot of fascinating things that, um, I think for some companies who are just operating in the US you don't get that understanding of how these international global trends start to infiltrate or trickle into the US market. And certainly the last few years, we're also seeing a lot of these Asian food trends, whether it's condiments like Serratia or meal occasions, like of course, you know, sushi and ramen, but, but there's, there's a whole movement of, of how those things are really mainstreaming the US rather quickly if you think back about 10 years or so

Dan: Well, and thank you for sharing that because we are a blended community blended, uh, society, but, you know, getting back to the business side of it, what I think is fascinating is that when you're thinking about your go-to-market strategy, and this is kind of tying into to our conversation today, again, you know, I give a lot of credit to the brands that are able to figure this stuff out there on their own. And a lot of the resources out there are people have been asking me about them, you know, over time, they're about Walla. Here's how someone solved a specific bottleneck. And what we want to do differently here on this platform is to help you avoid those bottlenecks to begin with. And so what Adam was talking about from my perspective is how do you leverage those strategies, those insights, those learnings, those cultural differences, to get a competitive advantage.

Dan: How do you leverage that,, those skills that he's been taught to really help a brand grow and scale? And so the point of the conversation was today that the best way to grow your or to explode your sales is to align yourself with people that can help you do that. Now by hiring someone is terribly expensive. And if you figure, you know, when you pick out the taxes and benefits and all that other stuff, that adds up really quick, and then you've got the overhead and you've got all the other stuff that goes with it. Whereas when you hire someone or bring someone into your company that you can leverage as a fractional employee, meaning you're getting that super high-level experience at a, at a, a, a fraction of the price for part-time, and you can use them when you need to use them.

Dan: That gives you an opportunity to not only expose your team to those insights, those methodologies, those strategies, but it also helps you as a brand capitalize or get talent. Let's put it that way, get talent that you wouldn't be able to forward naturally any other way. So the cool thing is you kind of get the best of both worlds, a blended mix of experience for much-reduced price over the long run. And then at the same time, you know, as independent consultants, we take our own insurance, we have to pay for our own computer. We have to pay for, you know, all that other stuff. You don't have that extra burden. So when you're thinking about Adam, when we were talking about how to help a brand grow, what are some of the things that you've seen brands do success, or what are some of the things that you've seen in your journey to get to where you're at, where brands have been able to leverage this concept to help them grow and scale and help augment their team?

Adam: Yeah, absolutely. Um, I think right now we're at a bit of a, a tipping point perhaps in that whole strategy and looking at the conventional model of saying, okay, I'm going to have an internal sales team. Then also I'm going to have a broker and, you know, is the broker going to be regional or is it going to be national? And how big should my internal sales team be versus that external broker? And do I really need a broker at all? And all of these decisions that I think are the conventional way of thinking about scaling out your, your Salesforce and whether that's in house or, or, uh, outsourced. Um, right now, I believe that there is a unique opportunity for brands to look at folks who are doing what I'm doing. And then, you know, I'm by no means the first one to do this and no way am I saying this is an absolutely novel concept.

Adam: This has been around for a long time, and I've got some great mentors who have guided me and getting to this path. So I think the difference right now is that the ability for, first of all, folks, aren't traveling, you know, by and large things are being done remotely, the buyer meetings, the trade shows, um, just the ability to have face to face interaction is severely diminished. And, you know, depending on, uh, everyone's outlook on this, that seems like that could be the case for the next six to 12 months, hopefully on the shorter side of that, uh, definitely would be my preference. I think if you're scaling a brand if you're looking at what's the most efficient route to market, how do you most quickly have an impact in reaching retailers and telling your story and making that resonate at least to get samples out, to start getting conversations going, knowing there's going to be a lag time and a delay in, you know, getting to shelf with category reviews, either being skipped over for this year or being delayed severely, uh, in most cases, um, you know, using somebody, uh, who can do that skillset outsourcing it and looking at a contracted basis, uh, may just be a much more efficient route to market.

Adam: And instead of having to do internal training, having to perhaps have someone come in online, who's then gonna wonder where to start. What's the channel strategy. Um, you can quickly jump in and say, there's a model for this. There's a way that you start to quickly identify where do you want to go geographically? What's the channel strategy is this omnichannel, it's just going to be direct to consumer. Now, given the new landscape that we're in, is it natural specialty? Are you going to go right to, you know, the conventional channel? So those things I think there it's by no means just a turnkey solution, but it is getting closer to that. If you're able to identify the goals and objectives quickly. And I think in that case that you can simply have someone who plugs in for at least a three or six-month increment, even if that's what it takes to see what this world's going to look like going forward. And it can really prolong or delay having to have that major cash outlay to, uh, you know, go ahead and hire your own team. And like you said, Dan, the, uh, package that goes with that as far as, you know, expenses, um, and, and insurance benefits, and really the all end costs of hiring somebody is a lot more than just a salary.

Dan: Yeah. A lot of people don't think about that. I remember years ago, um, you know, to hire someone at about $35,000 or something that costs a company about 50, 55,000, whatever one, all set in all in. And so that's something to think about, but okay, let's back up and I'm so glad you said, brokers. Now, let's be honest. There are good brokers, bad brokers, good doctors, bad doctors, good mechanics, bad mechanics, but brokers to be efficient, they have to use cookie-cutter strategies that, and that's how they're able to do what they do at effectively. And so when you're buying a broker, you're not buying people that have your same alignment, same passion, et cetera. So let me back up and explain why this matters. When I was, for example, at Kimberly Clark or Unilever, we had our own Salesforce, our own direct Salesforce. And so imagine having people that would go into a store, spend an hour and a half and work on your items, just your items, nothing else.

Dan: And then they go to the next store, but while they're there, they talk to the store manager and they sell their products and they build those relationships, right? And then you've got people in sales and all those other functions that work directly for that brand. Now we were trained the same, we're all incented the same. We all got bonuses based upon how we all performed. And we all had the same level of support in terms of the company. Now that's really expensive. So now imagine that you're going to a broker and now you've got someone that just because of efficiencies, they've got the same hour and a half, but instead of working on your 20, 30, 40 items or whatever, they have to manage two to 300 items. So where do you fall in that, that range now, will you go to a category manager or someone in the sales team and you get a deck, you get a generic deck, and I've helped produce a lot of the reports for NSS and different companies like that?

Dan: But it's, it's not the same. It's the same thing over and over and over. It's the same cookie-cutter strategies. Whereas when you hire someone, who's an expert in what they do. Like for example, if you're getting someone, you would typically find me at the VP level of the catalogs, someone with my skillset. So you get that level of strategy and that level of insights, but you get it for a fraction of the price, et cetera. And we focus on what you're specifically needing, not generically, here's the way to do this because here's the way to there. What else? When you hire someone like Adam, and I'm a Jew, this isn't a commercial for us. This is just the mindset. Then you're getting someone who's deep than a lot of IX steeped in a lot of experiences that you would not have. If you did not have an opportunity to be trained by the big companies.

Dan: I mean, literally the amount of money they spent training us at Unilever was staggering. Every single month, we would go to some distant location and it would be a four week, I mean, four or five-day immersion into some skill negotiating selling what you name it. And so the benefit, the thing we're talking about here is how do you leverage those insights to augment, to grow your team, to enhance your team? And the reason this matters is because a lot of the other brands out there that you probably are competing with are thinking of us as an expense when the reality is if we can teach you how to do something at a much higher level if we can give you strategies or skills that help you get to where you want to be faster than that's the benefit. And I'll give you another quick example, I'm working with a company that's in California who just got into distribution and the distributor got them into a store in Florida, two stores in Indiana, and a couple of stores in Louisiana, she's in California.

Dan: So the question is, first of all, how does she, realist? How are the shoes really? How is she going to realistically support that brand? She's not, she has any way to be there to support those retailers, to help drive those sales, to share her message. And then the other thing, thinking about the additional cost of getting her product into distribution in those stores, the merchandising, the slotting and stuff like that, what we do is we help you develop a strategy where we're going to focus on the stores that are going to be the best fit for you, and then grow from there rather than unfortunately what a lot of people do, because they don't know this business, as well as they're going to get you distribution, where ever they can get your distribution without thinking about whether or not it makes sense to your brand, your objective, et cetera, Adam, your thoughts.

Adam: Yeah, absolutely. This is a classic, uh, industry, I think, um, kind of decision, which is critical for brands. And we've seen so many that have really made mistakes, I think. And it's the lever difference here is going deep in their out versus going kind of, you know, just wide and shallow. And, and having that discipline as a brand, the strategy to stick to your guns, even when the retailers who were on the East Coast or the Midwest or outside of your channel focus come knocking. And that happens all the time. Uh, oftentimes the trade shows, um, or, you know, through distributors through brokers. Well, you know, Hey, I know you're focused on the East coast, but boy, I really have this Rocky mountain account that wants your brand. And it seems like a great fit, but all of your staff and all of your resources and your warehouse and everything else is optimized for the Eastern seaboard, do you really want to go out to, you know, um, the Denver market and those are classic challenges because, you know, you say, well, who are we to say no to new business?

Adam: That just seems absolutely foolish. And of course, the mindset is going to take you there. And I think everyone can relate to that. However, looking at spreading your resources, looking at what are the costs that are going to be incurred to do so additional staffing of freight, you're going to need to get out there having different warehouses, um, the consumer marketing, the awareness, uh, you know, the expectations that those buyers and retailers are going to have to have local market support, whether it's feet of the street or, or, um, you know, some type of, of, um, consumer marketing, uh, beyond the trade spend, all of those things need to really be carefully considered. So, um, you know, right now one of the brands I'm working with it, the whole focus is, you know, Pacific time zone, West coast, that's where we have to prove out the concept and that's really critical.

Adam: Um, of course, it would be great to go and consider those other companies that other retailers out East, that we know would be a good fit. They have the right type of shoppers, but it's really important to stay structure and really look at having that, that disciplined approach. So you can prove the concept where you can support it in your own backyard, or at least kind of, um, in your own, you know, kind of several state area, and then build that out. And, uh, it's, it's interesting, I think, um, kind of push-pull between, you know, disciplined patients and also really wanting to get the product out in the market, but knowing it's gotta be done in a sustainable way. And, uh, yeah, this is a whole new kind of threat. We could probably chase for another, uh, another call, but, um, there are a lot of dynamics that go into that in terms of staffing, in terms of what kind of broker you assign, as you were talking about brokers, dad, and, uh, even looking at the right fit, you'd go regional. Do you go national? Do you go kind of a channel silo by channel to make sure that you're just only, um, applying resources and paying for them in the areas where you're going to focus? So all of these things are kind of proportionate to how the brand wants to grow and making sure you're not getting ahead of yourself.

Dan: And then also, how do you make it? How do you decide whether or not that person is a good fit, et cetera? One of the other things is kind of cool about hiring us is you can fire us any time. And the reason why I make that comment is that you're not investing a ton of money into someone that, okay, now, what do we do if we can't get them to whatever, now you can, you kind of dip your toes in this. And you know, when we're talking about strategies and all those insights, I see that Jennifer social nature's on the call. She's one of the partners in this webinar series. The reason I wanted to mention her is when you're thinking about the resources that you want to apply in this industry, love it or, or not. I mean, whether it's a good or bad thing, there are a lot of people that are, are trying to sell or use canned topline reports.

Dan: And let's be honest, the same reports that someone uses to sell motor oil is not going to help work with your organic baby food. There are some differences. And in addition to that, the databases themselves have some issues in terms of they're not aligned with the way that customers actually shop. So focusing on that alone, when you've got someone with some expertise and knows how to use the right resources, who knows how to dig into the data and solve those problems and align the data around the customer that shops or find extra resources outside of, of, of what a lot of brands think about the best resources. Sometimes that's the biggest win. In fact, you know, years ago, people used to tell me that I should just have a business team telling people how to get there, kind of the best kind of data that they need to grow and scale their brand.

Dan: A very complicated topic. We'll cover that a lot on a lot of podcasts, but for example, social nature, to give them another plug, you know, they've got resources that can help you identify who your core customer is and how your customer buys your product. And at the end of the day, that's what matters. Where if you go to a broker, you know, they're so busy doing what is working on a hundred different projects that they're not focused on just your brand. And again, back to the turnkey, Salesforce strategies course your ability to leverage your selling story across every aspect of your sales funnel is your greatest strength. And I guarantee that that will help you more in terms of growing and scaling your brand than literally anything you can do. But yet most brands don't have the discipline to do that. So thank you for sharing that out.

Dan: So, as we're talking about right now with the pandemic, the reason this matters so much is that unfortunately, a lot of brands are laying off people and this complicates the story even more. So let's say that as a brand, I've hired Adam and I've, I've spent months looking to find him. He's the perfect candidate I've invested in him. Um, I've groomed him and now he's taking a lot of excess stuff off my plate. So I have more bandwidth to grow my brand, which is why I'm here, right? But now all of a sudden, the pandemic hits, and I gotta make some tough decisions. Do I fire at them? Because if I do, then I have to start all over again and I need to take on his work for him. And so this is an opportunity for us to lean in one, two, we have insights because of our experience as to what else is working in the world.

Dan: And so before you decide that we're going to fire at them, sorry, Adam didn't know you're going to get fired today, but before we decide to fire Adam, we could bring in an expert like Adam to help us identify other strategies, go to market strategies, et cetera, help us tighten our belt, where it makes sense. For example, trade-marketing help us get into the right stores instead of stores that are clear across the country, that we can't support, et cetera. So think about the other ways that having that level of expertise to come in and look at your business to assess and guide you to be successful so that you don't have to fire. Adam, start completely over again, Adam, your thoughts now that you're back on the payroll.

Adam: That was a yeah. The quickest turnaround ever. So yeah, I think the immediate thing that comes to mind right now, Dan, the, probably the biggest pandemic related changed our industry. I think, um, you know, is just the immediate omnichannel, um, best city that's come out. And so you look at, you know, direct to consumer and econ, and this is no secret everyone's been talking about it. But I think what's been interesting to me is even just, you know, six months ago, uh, especially couple of years ago, the idea that you could be a specialist, um, in the retail of silo, and then you had someone else do e-comm and someone else that could do food service, uh, you know, and that still exists as you get to a scale where that makes sense to have those silos of your sales structure. Certainly, that's the optimal way to operate.

Adam: But now the idea for startup brands, I think looking at to consumer e-com first-party website, first retail, second, suddenly the idea of being a specialist in these, you know, specific silos and channels, um, when you're emerging, when you're small and, and trying to be nimble and look at where can I capture sales? You know, the most immediate fashion, the whole world's been turned upside down the last few months. And, um, again, there's been a ton of content and discussion about this topic, but I think the other stipulation here then becomes, okay, is an owner founder going to be the one that figures out e-comm or who to work with and what kind of digital consultants to, to work with. And, and do I do Amazon, do I try to figure it out myself? Do I want to give Amazon all my consumer insights? You know, how do I even start to use Shopify for my first party?

Adam: All those things really become, I think, pretty daunting quickly. Um, and again, I would never sell myself as saying, Hey, I'm your one-stop e-comm solution, but at least there could be potentials for saying here's who we need to work with. We can outsource portions of this. And we can also try to find solutions to have at tandem econ direct to consumer and retail strategy. And, you know, Oh, by the way, if you were thinking about doing food service a few months ago, we should probably put food servers on the back burner cause the channels in some ways, you know, very much diminished to almost nonexistent right now. So let's, let's look at that in 2021. So I think prioritizing where you're placing your beds, you know, short term, middle term, longterm, looking at, um, how you're investing against the most immediate return on where the revenue can come from.

Adam: Um, you know, you're talking a lot about the data, the insights, and I think if we look at even, you know, store traffic and what's happening with the grab and go coolers with consumers going in, uh, and, and buying less than the perimeter of the store, where a lot of the grab and go deli consumption's happening in the show beverage space, those are all having very real impacts. So I think need to look at what's the expectation on units per store per week, you know, maybe you used to be able to do four or five units per store per week, maybe a cold case deli cooler. It was even higher than that for fasting items. Now, you know, thinking back those expectations and looking at how can direct to consumer fill in some of that, um, that gap. So a lot of these things, which, um, it's almost daunting to think now of just the speed at which we're trying to make these decisions and look at how the whole, um, you know, pie kind of constantly gets reshuffled.

Dan: Yeah. And that's some definitely to think about, especially now, you know, unfortunate, I've been hearing a lot of these, well, let's back up first. One of the things, one of the greatest opportunities I think we had in natural is to help retailers fill those holes that the big companies are leaving well, now that the retailers are on their sugar high again, unfortunately, and they're looking at trade-marketing a as a profit center, which they always have. Now, they're looking to those big companies to get the slotting dollars, cause that's a profit center to them. And what they're doing, unfortunately, is they're focused on their bottom line. And they're looking at the short term gain from that, you know, what does that mean in terms of what Adam was talking about? If you don't have the velocity that a store expects within you don't have a lawsuit within a store, the chance of you getting dealers to it is pretty great.

Dan: So now you need a compelling story to help that retailer understand why you need to be on the shelf. So as almost talking about, instead of focusing on velocity, because there's no way you're going to do, going to compete head to head on velocity alone, instead of that, let's talk about contribution. So what is contribution, contribution to the profitable dollars you drive into the store, it's what they take to the bank. So I've got examples actually in that trade marketing course that, uh, the one that's free. But the reason I mentioned that is that when you're thinking about how your brand performs within a retailer, think about how you're doing more to drive traffic in the store, how you're doing more to give them a competitive advantage in your market. And you're helping them gain a, a reasonable profit in the category. I see Dave's on the call too.

Dan: We've been Dave and I were having a conversation before, by the way, if you want to reach out to us and to have an individual conversation, like I said, please do. But we were talking about, for example, his Brandon, I certainly don't want to embarrass anyone. But what we're talking about is how he's struggling to try to get mainstream retailers to understand the benefit of his customer. And this is exactly what we're talking about. And the reason this matters is because of his brand drives more profit into the store than other brands, legacy brand, et cetera. But we're a reason I wanted to highlight that is because as you're thinking about your go-to-market strategy, sometimes it's being able to bounce an idea off of someone like us might give you some additional bandwidth, might give you a way to move the brand forward, et cetera. And more importantly, give you or help you develop that argument as to why your brand is more valuable to the retailer. And Dave's been on everyone is there are webinars. Thanks, Dave. And what we've talked about this, a depth about how to leverage, for example, your contribution in lieu of slotting in lieu of all that other stuff, because at the end of the day, if we can help the retailer grow and scale and survive, that's what they really want. So the sugar high eventually where Adam, your thoughts.

Adam: Yeah. I think you're talking about the idea of incrementality for the category and ultimately looking at it through a buyer's eyes in terms of how they're judged on there, you know, category management and how are they oftentimes being incentivized and making more money, uh, you know, at the end of the year. Um, so bringing growth to the category. So, you know, points of difference. What's incremental looking at where there is, you know, bloated category, um, uh, entries, you know, if you have, you know, five to 10, sometimes, um, different, uh, competing brands with very similar propositions, are those all bringing incrementality? Are they all still, you know, um, operating at the same threshold? They were a couple of years ago. I think so much. We're seeing, um, you know, especially in beverage where I've spent a lot of my career, the idea that the retailer just kind of sits back and it's autopilot and cruise control and says, well, wait for a second, this, this category is still cranking along.

Adam: You know, you can look at the energy category for example, and it's easy to justify saying, I think I still need 12 to 15 skews of this brand. Well, a lot of times it's to your point, Dan, because they're getting so many dollars and so many other kinds of support and almost, um, you know, kind of blackmail type leverage from these big guys. But if you really had, you know, a clear, transparent lens on the business, you would say, well, I think that there's a lot of shelf space you're in real estate for more incremental ideas. The consumer is not ready for things that are offering a more fresh perspective on the category and depending on the retailer, their location, the buyer's mindset, and then how much they're data-driven. They may see that even though the kind of tried and true legacy brands might still be driving 75 to 90% of the category, where's the growth coming from.

Adam: And if the growth percentage on those is stagnant and declining, which oftentimes it is, it really would have them at least in the longer term to say, okay, I think that 10 to 25% of the categories what's driving the growth. So if you start to look one, two, three years down the road at the category, that's going to be a much bigger percentage of where the growth is going to occur. So a lot of this really goes to, you know, how much is the buyer focused on today versus setting themselves up for success down the road. And, uh, I think that gets into also how brands can speak to the suppliers, how you present data, how you present the trend story in terms of what consumers want. And it varies depending on the, on the geography and the type of channel, that type of buyer.

Adam: So a lot to, um, you know, on a package there, but I think, um, it's fascinating in that you need to really consider the audience and try to customize the package, the presentation towards that buyer. And I would also add that. I think having a compelling brand story right now is just so critical. Um, I think a lot of brands are wondering how do you get a response right now? When do I send samples? If they're unsolicited, is that actually going to be a negative thing for me? How do I get their attention? So I think, you know, having unique selling points that are relevant, it's, you know, your functional benefit, your origin story, uh, the sustainability, uh, story of the brand, or, you know, the convenience, all these propositions that need to stand out right now. And I think the idea of the kind of periodic check-ins looking at sending sales decks just very short, or like, you know, 92nd YouTube videos that can resonate and just periodically check-in and say no pressure, but I just wanted to kind of stay top of mind with you, but, you know, here's what we're working on behind the scenes.

Adam: And, you know, when you come up for air and start to have conversations, I look forward to continuing the conversation. And I think that's the best in class approach, you know, for what's happening in the retail world right now.

Dan: Absolutely. And let me go one step further. This is your opportunity to prove yourself as a valued resource, as a valued, trusted, and respected resource. So from my perspective, a category leader, any brand willing and able to step up and help guide the retail partner to succeed. And it's different from a category captain, I've been that before, and that's really expensive and that's something, none of these brands, you know, none of the brands in this channel I would recommend, but brands that have big resources like a Unilever Kimberly-Clark, of course, they can afford them. But absolutely. And so when you're thinking about helping them see the future, a quick example, several years ago, working for Unilever P and G bought Gillette, and they came up with their own body wash and the product was tanking. And I got it discontinued off the larger retail largest retailer in the country stores on their shelves.

Dan: And it deserved to be discontinued and P and G walked in with a big check and bought that space back. Okay. Now, while this happened, other retailers were losing where that product's being discontinued at all the competitors, retailers to competitor stores. And what happened was competitors there, their category that category, the body wash category, their sales were up well, because we had Gillette body wash on the shelf and it wasn't doing well, that retailer did not do as well as their competition. They lost a lot of share. So helping them see around the corner in their blind spots, that's really, really important. I interviewed Patagonia yesterday and they're going to be coming on the podcast. They might even be doing one of the free webinars or in a panel, fingers crossed. But anyhow, the thing that reason I mentioned to them is they are the best at developing a story around their brand and executing around that and helping those, helping brands understand it.

Dan: So many, I'll definitely be looking for that to be in a couple of weeks, but as Adam said, your brand story is it is your lifeline. It is everything about your brand. Think about everything. When, when a customer goes to a store and they see your name on a brand, that is your brand, right. And if there's an out of stock, it's not the broker's fault. It's not the distributor's fault. It's not the retailer's fault. It's your brand because it's got your name on it. So how does that impact their view of your product? And you've got to put your best foot forward every single time you go to market. So, as Adam was saying, this is why this is so important. You need to be, have, you've got to have the strategies in place so that you're effectively managing or executing your, your business strategy or retail strategy. So Adam, what would you recommend a brand do to capitalize on what we've been talking about? So that they're ex so that they're executing flawlessly at shelf?

Adam: Yeah, I think, um, depending on the stage and scale of the brand, uh, there would be a couple different, um, probably, you know, priority solutions there. I would say if you're just getting going, you know, the goal is to get distribution, you have to get on the shelf, um, figuring out as we've been talking about the most efficient way to do that, whether it's, you know, internally or having external support, um, looking at, you know, the opportunity to at least find experts that you can consult with, uh, folks who are in your network, folks that you can connect with through industry sources like this, um, is definitely important to get going. Once you have some distribution, once you have some placements and warehouses open and you need to go, you know, as the old merchandising cliche goes, uh, inspect what you expect. Um, typically it makes sense to look at third party merchandising groups or even, um, you know, other ways of crowdsourcing things.

Adam: There's a lot of technology out there now, which can even optimize again, extending the resources you have outside of your small team. I would not advise a, you know, $5 million or smaller brand, even maybe larger than that to go out and hire 10 merchandising area sales reps across the country. That's a massive, massive resource load on payroll and other things that we discussed earlier. Um, so how do you most efficiently do that on kind of a real-time as-needed basis? Uh, and there are these tools now that enable that whether it's third-party Marsh merchandising groups to crowdsource auditing tools, things like that. So enabling tech to be a, an asset, um, if the brokers are not able to do it and, and constantly looking at, Hey, I if I just have a need to check certain stores to do it with a certain cadence, you know, there might be some tools and ways to really optimize that. And that's again, where it really helps to find folks who can advise you in these areas, as opposed to just going down the rabbit hole yourself and feeling like it's so overwhelming.

Dan: And thank you for sharing that on that note last summer, more so than, than, uh, other times it's kind of ebbs and flows, but, uh, last summer, a bunch of big legacy brands reached out to me and asked me, how do you maximize your broker effectiveness? And I've actually put a course, my website that has a lot of those insights that I shared with him. But the point is exactly what Adam was talking about. How do you choose the right broker? How do you hold them accountable? How do you get them to, to execute at the level that you expect them to? In fact, I was talking to Madeline Haydon on one of the podcast episodes she's with Nutpods. And she asked her bottleneck that she shared was, you know, how do I manage my broker? And I said, well, if I'm working for you and I'm not performing a kind of like Adam wasn't a minute ago, then you'd fire me.

Dan: Right. And I said, well, then why don't you hold your broker to the same level? Why don't you have them hold them accountable in the same way that you would, uh, hold me? And one of their thought that that, you know, back to what Adam said a minute ago, I keep talking about this. You've got to have your brand available anywhere, your customer shops. And that includes online. And Adam has alluded to this a couple of times, that's a great point. You've got to have a digital strategy. You've got to be everywhere. So there are creative strategies that I share throughout, you know, on the podcast, et cetera, and about how to leverage your trade marketing, how to leverage your, your go-to-market strategy with online. So for example, you could actually, and I haven't seen people do this and do as well, but this is the one thing, things that I'm working with brands on leverage their online strategy to drive sales in a brick and mortar store and vice versa.

Dan: And it's all about being discovered again, social nature. That's kind of one of the things that they do. So the point is reaching out to people in the industry that can help you to develop these kinds of strategies that are creative, that are different, that are things that other people, your peers, et cetera, aren't aware of that you're not going to hear of at the business schools and et cetera in this industry. That's why we're having this conversation because we want to teach you how to avoid those bottlenecks in the first place. And we want to give you strategies, insights, et cetera, to help you really grow and scale and get beyond that. I know that we've got 13 more minutes, Adam, why don't we take a quick break and you tell us a little bit about yourself and where you are, what you're doing, and how we can get ahold of you and what you do specifically.

Adam: Yeah, absolutely. So, uh, as I mentioned earlier, the business name is summit sales consulting. My website is summit sales consulting.com. Um, and then, uh, I live in Southern California. I also can be reached on my website with my phone number and contact information there if you send that inquiry, uh, or be a LinkedIn, either my personal page at Adam retell or summit sales consulting. So, um, yeah, right now I'm working with a few early stage emerging brands, uh, focusing on kind of a little bit different, uh, w more, um, advising kind of channel setting and looking at getting the, um, you know, foundational work done for one of them. The other one very much in a, you know, outsourced sales capacity, really managing and directing the, um, the regional focus of getting into the retail environment as well as direct to the consumer right now. So again, it really can run the gamut depending, on the brand needs.

Adam: And what kind of, um, you know, either very short term initial, you know, one-month type engagement versus going into a, a longer engagement where they're seeking for a solution that could be, you know, to really scale things up over a 12 to 18-month type timeframe. So, um, yeah, encouraging them when to reach out, definitely would love to continue conversations and talk about all these sorts of things. I think, um, the idea in general here is I think cultural fit with your partners is also very critical. Um, you know, just making sure it feels right. You need to enjoy who you work with at the end of the day, you know, it's, it is a people business, and that really drives a lot of it. You're you need to enjoy who you're working with, whether it's brokers and direct to consumer partners, um, you know, there's enough grief and headaches with getting distribution and getting on the shelf in terms of some of the things that always aren't so pleasant.

Adam: So, uh, I would really advise to just interview a lot of people, talk to different folks like you and me, and just see what feels right. See what's a good fit for where the brand exists and what your needs are now and in the future. Um, and it's, it's a pretty closed-in industry that way. A lot of people are really willing to reach out and help have resources like you're providing here. Dan, I think in general, um, looking at, at just how collectively, how can this industry pull through this time is challenged right now and put our best foot forward. And I also see that retailers are starting to take a different approach I've actually noticed in the last week or so, just coming out of the 4th of July holiday break that, um, perhaps this rollercoaster pandemic, uh, in the second half of the year, there might've been a, uh, kind of hesitancy for retailers to come out of the bubble and the shell, so to speak, hoping this was gonna pass by Midsummer, and then everyone would be back in their offices and we'd have face to face meetings, and it would be business as usual.

Adam: And, you know, even, I think in April and may, we were expecting that maybe that would, it would look different by July and August. We're now seeing that this, uh, this is probably going to continue for the majority of the second half of the year and hopefully not too much further into next year, but I think the retailers now are realizing they have to pivot. And that means that you know, we need to get some things done and not just, you know, hit pause the rest of 2020. So I'm optimistic. I really feel like, um, you know, people are pulling through this together and now they're, they're trying to find ways to see the light and, and move forward.

Dan: Thank you for sharing that. And on that note, the best defense against any virus is a healthy diet. And so that's why you matter. And by the way, Adam's information, his email addresses in the chat on that note, please put something in the chat. If you've got a question, you know, another thing that's really great about hiring someone fractionally is if you've got something that you're trying to do, and you just need a little bit of help, Hey, we can jump in there and do that for you and help you get that done real quick and efficiently. And then let you go back to whatever you're doing until you need us again. So there are a lot of ways to use fractional experts to help you grow and scale your brand. It's not a matter of you're married to that person for life, et cetera. Uh, but it's, you know, more importantly, it is a way to really grow in scale.

Dan: And the other cool thing is like I said, you get that super high-level expert ex expertise that you would honestly be able to afford otherwise. And so, you know, take advantage of that. And so let's keep talking. We've got, uh, like I said, if anyone has got a question, I got a couple of questions from before. So Janice asks, is this going to be recorded? Yes, this is, so this will be available later because of this is valuable and this is timely. I'm going to strip out the audio, put it on the podcast in a couple of weeks. In addition to that, I am going to make this, this video will be available. I'll probably put it on the YouTube channel or maybe in a course, we'll talk about it. But, um, by the way, on the courses, there are a lot of other free courses out there that are collaborations, kind of like this with industry experts.

Dan: And the reason this matters. Again, this is free to take advantage of that. That's why we do this. This is my way of giving back, bringing someone like Adam, an expert like Adam onto this platform, and helping me help you solve your bottlenecks and answer your questions and grow and scale. Um, Tom has a question for Adam wants to know about your, your beverage experience. So in terms of your beverage experience, he wants to know, how does your experience working with a multinational brand severity, understand this correctly? How does that impact the way that you're able to work in natural those strategies versus mainstream? And then how do you leverage it as a fractional or part-time employee?

Adam: Yeah, the multipart question. Um, I think historically the natural side has been more relationship-based selling. It's more about the feel, good emotional connection of the brand. And that was true largely. Um, you know, I would say in the two thousand and maybe up until a few years ago, what we've seen emerge now is the database fact factual selling has really crept in from the conventional side as spins and other, you know, uh, syndicated data sources are now in the natural specialty channel. So just to, you know, have a friendly face and go in there and be old pals with somebody is not enough the way it used to be in some, I think the brand proposition needs to still resonate in the, in the, in the natural channel in such a way that there's gotta be kind of that, you know, the triple bottom line in terms of being good for the planet, still being profitable, offering incrementality, but having a story that's also authentic and really is driving at something that those consumers are gonna emotionally resonate with.

Adam: So whole foods has changed a lot. There's no question that Amazon has changed the dynamic and the personality somewhat of whole foods, but it's still very important to be a brand that resonates with the whole foods team and why you would go on the shelf. There that's a different set of criteria than what it's going to be to get on the shelf at Publix. Uh, you know, no question. So, um, I think the idea of looking at how you can appeal to both of them audiences, what are the triggers? What are the hot buttons and the presentations that those buyers want to see, whether it's a very organized kind of, you know, structured presentation deck that you have to adhere to, or if there are other things that, you know, you can appeal by showing them a quick video or, you know, some feel-good message of how the brand is produced.

Adam: Um, I would say on the multinational level of working for a large Japanese CPG, one of the challenges we had is looking at how to translate the story of how green tea and matcha is produced in the farm fields of Japan to a US consumer. It's a lot easier to tell that story when you can, you know, take someone down the road to your local farm and talk about that. You can't take your consumer to Japan and say, you know, here's what a beautiful T field looks like. And look at how these amazing small family farmers harvest this tea and drop it off. And their little Toyota pickup trucks and these burlap sacks. I mean, it's an amazing story, but you need to find those ways to connect that, to make the world feel smaller. And then to also look at the trends and say, we see that if we talk about these things more holistically and transparently, the US consumers are looking for that, they want to know where their food is being produced.

Adam: They want to know the sourcing. You know, we used to kind of say that this, this, um, leaf to bottle story is kind of similar to saying the seed, the copper or whatever, but really looking at trying to make the whole connection to the relationship, feel Mo more coherent and, and really honing in and on, on making it a competitor and authentic story to the consumer. And that's, that's a lot tougher for a large multinational company when the consumer in Japan just knows your brand because it's on every street corner in Tokyo versus in the US where it's hard to even pronounce your company's name because people don't speak Japanese. So, um, it was very humbling, but it's also kind of a, a long game in either one example to look at it, having three different brands. And then how did each of those brands resonate in different channels for different consumers, uh, and knowing when to apply each one of those and where to place your resources, uh, given where you, those brands are gonna have, um, you know, runway in the US market

Dan: I'd like to add, thank you for the question, by the way. Uh, I'd like to add that also generic presentations that a lot of brands use today, unfortunately, are woefully inadequate and having the right kind of insights. Um, you know, you've mentioned different databases. There are different databases that work with different retailers, and you've got to know which ones, which, and which one makes the most sense. You just can't walk in with one database and think that that's going to apply to every other retailer. And unfortunately, I think as an industry, we don't do a good job educating people about that. What also the other kind of insights that you're bringing in, how does that work? And then as Adam has talked about several times, your compelling story, it's gotta be able to resonate through your sales deck. The way that when I started a lot of the retailers you would present to the retail buyer, they would then present to their procurement office, and then they would have a meeting amongst themselves where they would represent the product to their team.

Dan: And so you had to make sure that your, your deck was so had everything in it so that when you left it behind, you absolutely knew that there would not be any questions that would get you, you know, that they would have where they would basically say no to your product. And those are some of the insights and the watch-outs and the things you need to be aware that people like us can help you with. So again, with that cultural fit, that gives you even more insights. And so, uh, with that, tell you what, we've got. One more question. So, uh, with the, uh, Adam with the retail investment dollars adding up, when should you add fractional help?

Adam: Um, yeah, there's not a cut and dry answer for that. It would say, I would say, you know, looking at how long the owner founder, the initial team can keep their arms around the expanding business. Um, there's a lot of criteria that would dictate that decision in terms of where's your distribution. Um, you know, is it, does it require a store level, uh, support? Is it all being done at the headquarters centralized corporate level? Um, and then looking at, you know, how's the pull-through getting an initial idea of the proof of concept? Is it starting to pull through off the shelf? Are you seeing that while we've got something here and maybe you're in a couple of regional retailers and you've been in for, you know, three to six months, and you're getting a little bit of a sales story coming back to you and, you know, you're talking to the retail buyers, they seem happy with it?

Adam: And you might finally get to have a little bit of a light bulb moment. Like, Hey, I think we're onto something here. Um, although I don't feel very confident knowing that I can manage it or set promotional calendars going forward, or how do I work with you? And if I in K E to open up new warehouses, and this is starting to become like you a foreign language, Oh boy, I might need some help. So that's going to be different depending on the, on the, you know, initial, uh, management ownership team of what their cap capacities and expertise are. Um, but I would say, you know, somewhere in that first, probably six to 18-month timeframe, as some of that distribution occurs, start to look at these decisions. And even if it's only for, you know, saying, Hey, I need someone to help me for a month or two to figure out a really good canned sales deck that I can tweak to figure out who a good broker could be.

Adam: If I want to try to manage them directly, um, get my pricing in line, look at maybe the label, understand if the product proposition is up to snuff, all these things, um, you know, it can be either temporary or ongoing. So again, um, just to think about, does it start to feel like a scary unknown world that you're just not confident making decisions? Or do you still think that given the resources and the, and the, the cash outlay, um, that, that you can continue to scale this for a little bit longer, but don't wait too long and make too many mistakes before you come back and say, Oh, I wish I would've done this six months ago? Now there are some things that I can't really unwind easily, or there was some really, um, you know, poor money investments made. I wish I would've known better. And I think that's what you're alluding to Dan in terms of not to make those, those mistakes yourself and learning from other brands.

Dan: Thank you for saying, and then that's exactly why we're having this conversation. I know we're over, so we'll stop and do the second, but that's, you know, Brad barn horn was on a few weeks ago, and that's essentially what he said. Use people like us to guide you to help you think through some of these things so that we can help you make the very best decision. Adam, thank you so much for coming on today. I appreciate it. Thank you everyone for being here. Appreciate that. It really appreciates that because, you know, you're the reason we do this right, to raise the bar in the industry. And again, look for the next two webinars. I've got more scheduled down the road, you know, coming up that I'm working on, but again, let us know what your bottlenecks are, let us know what your challenges are and reach out to us. You know, it's a free call, right? And we will try to answer some of your questions and we will try to do our best to help steer you in the right direction. Even if it's not us as the best possible resource. That's what makes natural natural. So we're all here helping to build helping each other. So Adam, any parting thoughts?

Adam: No, I just want to, again, thank you Dan, for having this forum for the industry and for, uh, you know, continuously having this content out there, it's a real service to everyone. Um, and, uh, I think, especially in these times, right now, all the unique angles that you're covering with, with this content is very valuable and needed. So I appreciate the opportunity. It's been great.

Dan: Well, and I appreciate it. And again, thanks, everyone. This is why we do this for you, right? This is about units for you. So thank you so much. I'd like to thank Adam for coming on today and for sharing his wisdom and his insights. I'll be certain to put a link to summit sales consulting on the podcast, webpage to get instant access to the proven strategies to Maximize Trademarking ROI course, please got to brand secrets and strategies.com forward slash trade marketing ROI. When you get there, use exclusive code trade essentials so that you can get the course for free. I just finished updating this course, and I added a lot of great content to it. It's normally $297, but it's free for you with that coupon code. This is my way of giving back, and this is my way of helping you get your product on more store shelves and into the hands of more shoppers. Especially during these uncertain times, this course will help you build a healthy foundation to build your trademarking strategy on. And if you already have a trade marketing strategy, this is going to help you take it to the next level and beyond. You can also learn more about this on the podcast webpage and on the podcast show notes, and you can get there by going to brand secrets and strategies.com forward slash 201, thank you for listening. And I look forward to seeing you in the next episode.

Dan: Thanks again for joining us today. Make sure to stop over brand secrets and strategies.com for the show notes, along with more great brand building articles and resources, check out my free new course turnkey sales story strategies, your roadmap to success. You can find that on my website or a turnkey sales strategies.com/grow sales, please subscribe to the podcast. They have a review and recommend it to your friends and colleagues to sign up today on my website. So you don't miss out on actionable insights and strategic solutions to grow your brand and save you valuable time and money. I appreciate all the positive feedback. Keep the suggestions coming until next time. This is Dan Lohman with brand secrets and strategies for we focus on empowering brands and raising the bar.

Summit Sales Consulting summitsalesconsulting.com

Thanks again for joining us today. Make sure to stop over at brandsecretsandstrategies.com for the show notes along with more great brand building articles and resources. Check out my free course Turnkey Sales Story Strategies, your roadmap to success. You can find that on my website or at TurnkeySalesStoryStrategies.com/growsales. Please subscribe to the podcast, leave a review, and recommend it to your friends and colleagues.

Sign up today on my website so you don’t miss out on actionable insights and strategic solutions to grow your brand and save you valuable time and money.

I appreciate all the positive feedback. Keep your suggestions coming.

Until next time, this is Dan Lohman with Brand Secrets and Strategies where the focus is on empowering brands and raising the bar.