Important: Brand Secrets and Strategies has been rebranded to Retail Solved. Please swap all BrandSecretsandStrategies.com URL’s with RetailSolved.com. This is now the Bulletproof Your Brand podcast. Thank you for listening!

Bootstrapping goes well beyond financing. It also includes sweat equity and doing things other brands won’t - like a commitment to personally talk with as many  customers and stores as possible. This is how you convert customers into loyal shoppers!  

Today, I have an extremely inspiring story to tell you. But first, let me ask you, what are the things that keep you up at night? What are the struggles that you face as a brand?

What are the things that get in the way of your success? And what keeps you from getting started? These are some of the questions we're going to be talking about today.

We all listen to founder stories about how they became an overnight success in only four or five years. And we love hearing origin stories about brands that started out with a purpose of trying to solve a problem for themselves or for their loved ones. Well, this is exactly one of those stories.

Today's story is about an unlikely founder, unlikely in the sense that he had to work a lot harder. In other words, a lot of the roadblocks, a lot of the bottlenecks that stop and even stifle some brands, he had to push through those and come up with a creative strategy to help bring his brand to life. This truly is a David and Goliath type story.

And the best part is when you're feeling down, when you're feeling discouraged, you can listen to this podcast and it can help inspire you and help you get refocused. After all, Adam is the model for getting thrown off the horse and then getting right back on. His positive attitude is infectious, as is his dogged determination.

In addition to sharing Adam's story, which is so inspirational, you're going to learn a lot about the business. In addition to that, this is a bit of a coaching session, where you're going to listen to me help solve some of his most pressing bottlenecks. More importantly, these are the things that you need to be thinking about.

How to maximize your trade promotion. How to make sure you're in the right stores. How do you make sure that you're getting the right kind of merchandising and developing the right kind of community around your brand, and a lot more.

Thank you for listening. This show is about you and it's for you. An appreciation for your time is a free downloadable guide for you at the end of every podcast episode.

I always include one easy to download, quick to digest strategy that you can instantly adopt and make your own. One that you can use to grow sustainable sales and compete more effectively with. On today's episode, we talk a lot about promotion management.

How to maximize each and every opportunity that you get in front of the customer. So today's free download is The Essential Promotion Blueprint. Details on how to get it instantly are at the end of the podcast episode.

Remember that the goal here is to get your brand under more store shelves and into the hands of more shoppers, including online. And don't forget to go back and listen to prior episodes where I might solve some of your most pressing bottlenecks. You know the things that keep you up at night.

When Expo West was canceled, I leaned in and launched a free weekly webinar series where I invite leading industry experts to answer the questions that you send me. See the complete schedule on the events tab of my website. If you like this episode, share it with a friend and subscribe so you'll be the first to get new brand building content as soon as it goes live.

Help me raise the bar in the industry. Now here's Adam. Adam, thank you for coming on today.

Could you please start by telling us a little bit about yourself and your journey to Keto Crisp?

Sure. My name is Adam Bremen. Originally born and raised in the suburb of Detroit, Michigan.

I was diagnosed with cerebral palsy when I was two years old. Cerebral palsy is a birth defect. You're not going to get any worse from it.

I'm not going to die from it. Thankfully for me, what's been my calling card my whole life is the love and support that my parents have given me and family have given me. And it's all about what I can do and not what I can't do.

At five years old, I got my first power chair. And it was really important growing up to kind of live my life just like anybody else. You know, I wanted to go to a I wanted to go to ballgames.

I wanted to be involved in sports. My my hero growing up was my older brother because he was able to do everything. And my younger sister was able to do everything.

And I just I wanted to be just like every other kid on the block, you know, playing with their friends, going out to dinners, going here, going there. I never saw the chair as an obstacle. I always saw it as an opportunity to get better and, you know, really just to enjoy my life.

Again, I never saw the chair as anything other than a means for me to get around. And I was so thankful to have the technology to be able to do that because I just wanted to live my life like everybody else.

I think that's so inspirational. Thank you for sharing that. I mentioned right before I hit the record button that I've had some friends in the past in the past that had cerebral palsy and I had a really good friend at college and he was able to do so much.

And I guess really what I wanted to get at here is that your dedication, your commitment, your drive, your passion is so great. And so is everyone else I've ever met that's been in the same situation that you're a model. You are a something for us to look up to.

So for all the brands that whine and complain about, well, the day's not going great or this isn't going right or I can't do this because I don't have enough money or because I don't have enough who knows what, right? The dog ate the homework type excuse. You've overcome that and you found a way to make this work.

And I got to tell you that I am so inspired not only by the brand you've built, but by your story, because this is what makes natural natural. Someone like you that sees a problem, solves the problem and then turns it into a thriving business and then builds a community around it. So before we talked, last time we talked, you're talking about your journey to Keto Crisp.

Why did you invent this? Why was this even important to you?

Well, you know, if you would have told me two years ago, I would have been in the bar business. I would have told you, you're crazy. But you know, when I started this journey in 2017, I was just overweight and looking to get into shape.

And so I started a rigorous, you know, swimming program and a diet program. And what I found that I was putting into my body and taking out was really based along the keto diet. And I didn't know much about keto at the time.

And I was just starting to do some research on, you know, again, what I was putting into my body and what I was taking out. And it really aligned with some of the factors and some of the techniques used in the keto diet, which is low carb, low sugar, higher in fat. And then with my workout program in the pool, I just began losing weight rather quickly.

And then, you know, I'd constantly visit the local grocery stores or convenience stores. And I noticed there was no real great tasting keto bar in the market.

And so, you know, like you said, when there's a need, you just start to think and your wheels turn and you're like, man, wouldn't it be great to have a great tasting snack bar? I've always been a foodie and enjoyed food. And what if we could create a great tasting snack bar that had all the elements of the keto diet?

So we began to do some research like every other brand does. And we began to perfect our craft and come up with the right ingredients and the right flavor textures and all the profiles needed to create the bar. And we came up with three flavors to start chocolate, mint, chocolate, raspberry, and then almond butter.

And then we literally would just get started. You know, we put it up on the website, keto chris.com. We put it on Amazon.

And then I literally then would go door to door at these local retailers and be like, guys, you got to try my bar. You got to try it. Every day I would go into the store.

I don't know if they felt bad for me or they just wanted me to shut the hell up. But they finally gave it a shot. And they said, Adam, this thing is not only great, it's the best bar we've ever tasted.

We'd love to bring it in. And that's where it started.

Well, I appreciate your and it's kind of funny. So my first question is the bar category. What are you nuts?

That is the most difficult category to get into. You want to talk about a category that's difficult to compete in? It's like, why the heck did you choose that?

So first of all, hats off to you again, because it's that persistence, because everyone and their brother starts in the bar category because I can make it in my kitchen and take it to a store. I love the fact that you had the persistence to go into stores and just go door to door and try and try and try. But let's back up a little bit.

A lot of people don't really understand what keto is. It's some magical fad diet in the minds of a lot of people. And I'm on it to a degree and what it essentially is.

And so if you take a look at a gluten free diet, gluten free is removing the gluten from your body, the carbs, etc. My sister is has celiacs. So she has on a gluten free diet and yet she eats low sugar.

She eats low calorie. I mean low sugar, low carb and high fat, high quality fat. I should quantify that.

This is not the garbage processed fats. These are the fats your body needs. And so what you're taking in, what the keto diet is, is really just eating healthy and removing a lot of the gluten, etc.

from your diet and bad processed foods. On the high fat piece, I had Megan Reimer of Jackson's Honest and she was talking about how it helped her son, I'm trying to remember the exact story. Her son had a medical problem where he almost died because he wasn't getting something in his body.

And so she went back to a high fat diet, high healthy fat diet, and that helped cure him. And the point being, this is in Atkins, the point being is that your body needs healthy fats to process, to do things, to burn fuel, etc. So, can you talk a little bit about that piece of it?

Why are healthy fats important and why was that important for you? And how did that impact or help you lose weight?

Well, I think it all starts with getting rid of the sugars and the carbs, you know, because they really make your body store a lot of excess fat. And then the healthier fats that you're talking about, they really help in the mental aspect, making you sharp, you know, allowing your body really to burn the healthy fats that it needs to be successful. And you know, again, just a process of going in, you know, feeling these different ways and really cleaning up the diet.

Like I said, getting rid of the carbs, getting rid of the sugars, I just, you know, and along with exercise, it was really a game changer for me. And you read books and you see things and you're seeing the results daily and it's really, it's really, it's incredible, actually. I stayed away from the processed meats like you said, I really focused on healthy, kind of, you know, just cleaning up my diet and all aspects, but really focusing on lowering the carbs, lowering the sugars, because that's really, you know, that's how you, how you don't burn the fat.

So, you're getting rid of the carbs and sugars, that was the biggest thing for me and, you know, again, the results were really, really inspiring to myself and I'm like, we've got something here, we've got to run with it.

Glad you did that. Go ahead. I'm sorry, please continue.

No, no. And you read stories about, about, what was it, your sister?

Yes.

Your sister and her son about, about the effects and positivity of, you know, eating healthier fats and how it helps the mind and, you know, you know, type two diabetics with the low sugar. There's just really a lot of benefits around the board to, you know, eliminating awful sugars. And today, more than ever, Dan, people are aware of what they're putting in their body and they're asking for lower carb, lower sugar alternatives.

Which is exactly why we're having this conversation. One of the things that I think is interesting is if you give your body what it needs, it needs less of it. And the point being is that if you eat a lot of processed foods, a lot of carbs, etc.

then you're always hungry. And when you eat less of that, then your body has the fuel it needs. And my point here is that, kind of supporting what you're talking about, is that when I started going on keto, and for the most part I am on it, you know, I'm not, I don't stick to it 100% the way that I'm sure you probably do.

You know, occasionally I'll have something that might have some carbs in it, etc. But for the most part, I feel better because I'm not eating as much. In fact, I eat very little compared, you know, my size compared to what I ate in college.

But I feel full, I feel satiated. And at the same time, because I don't have that bloating feeling, that heavy feeling, I feel like I have more energy, more fuel, I'm more awake, I'm more ready for my day, which is great. And what's interesting is when I do eat something that has carbs in it, it's one of those things where if you see something that you grew up on that you really like and you really want it, really want it, really bad potato chips, whatever, and you eat it and you think, God, that was not satiated, not satiated, not good at all.

It's one of those kinds of things and I haven't learned that lesson yet. So how do you stay off of the bad foods?

You know what? I'm like everybody else. You know, every once in a while, I do go back to how I used to.

FBut you know, like you said, when you do something like that, you don't feel as excited. It doesn't taste as good the whole the whole time. I tell people it's really like learning a new language, you know.

So I've picked up this language and it's really a part of me. Now. Yes.

Is there times when I do have sweets? Absolutely. Like, you know, but every morning I stick to, you know, the strategy that, hey, I'm going to minimize my carbs.

I'm going to minimize my sugars. And, you know, I've been maintaining my weight for, you know, you know, in the beginning, I lost 65 pounds in the last six, seven months. You know, you know, I maintain my weight and I feel comfortable.

I feel better than I ever have. Like I said, there are times when I may have more carbs than I probably should, but that's fine. I feel comfortable.

I don't want to deprive myself of having something. But you know, it's interesting, you say your body gets used to certain things. And like I talked about earlier, it's really like learning a new language.

And you know, it's really felt great for me and I would encourage people, everybody's different. So you got to work with what program works for you. There's not a one size fits all, you know, we talk about intermittent fasting as well.

And that's getting a lot of buzz around. And you know, I feel that, you know, I don't like you said, I'm not we're not as hungry as much.

Which is great because we're not eating as much. We're not spending as much on garbage food, etc. Sixty five pounds.

Congratulations. And so when I think about not when I need to lose weight, it's how many miles I need to ride my bike or how fast hard I need to run and stuff like that. And it's a struggle, but to your point, if I can eat less, feel better about myself, give my body the fuel it needs, then at the end of the day, that's the win-win.

And that's what this is all about. So before we start talking about your bar, how do you champion this movement? How do you celebrate it?

By the way, I love the way that you put this. This is like a language because this is really what we need to communicate as a industry. I think we need to do a much better job of communicating the value of the products that we're making rather than apologizing for the cost of putting quality products in our, quality ingredients in our products.

So how do you communicate that to your audience?

Well, I just think education is the key in explaining the value of why you should look at something like this and listen to what the customers are talking about. Before, you know, COVID-19 hit, I would constantly be in the stores and, you know, they would give me their feedback and I really, that's my sweet spot. I love talking to the customers, understanding what their needs are, where they're feeling, what are they thinking about foods and how can we improve their situation?

And you know, I just think education and over time and people, you know, want to do better by themselves, but they're not sure how. So I think every day you see somebody like myself or like you that have, I think, you know, when you see a story of success, success, I always say this, success breeds success, positivity breeds positivity. So you want to, you want to encourage, you want to support and you want to educate.

And being a thought leader in the industry now, we're constantly doing that. And that's, that's something I enjoy and it takes time. It doesn't happen overnight, but you just constantly get the story out there and just be an active listener and an advocate for people and whatever they're, whatever they're looking to accomplish.

So do you have a committed community outside of traditional retail that you can communicate with?

What do you mean by that?

Well, if I, do you have a way to capture my email address and then pull me into a community and develop a relationship with me outside of retail?

Yeah, I mean, with social media, we're doing that all the time. You know, reaching out to people and joining different keto groups, different lifestyle groups. You know, that's really what we want to do is we want to get in there and really find out what people are doing, why they're doing it, and how we can be involved to support.

So, yes, definitely so, especially now with COVID, you know, people aren't going, they're going into retail, they're buying what they know, and then they're getting out.

Exactly, which is what's really, really important. So here's what I was talking about, Adam, is it has a place on your website where I can put in my email address. What happens if I do that?

Then you're part of our newsletter. So any promotions that we have, we send out a lot of recipes, we send out information, we do a blog, just kind of keeping you up to date on latest trends. Sometimes I may send out an email

Great. So this is what I was getting at. My point is that if you can develop a committed community around your brand, and you can develop a loyal community, you can convert occasional customers into little shoppers, but within your community, your tribe, then you can leverage that to gain incremental sales at retail.

You can leverage that to reduce your trade spending. And I've got a lot of creative strategies around that. But the point was, where I was going with that, and thanks for sharing that, is that gives you a unique opportunity to differentiate yourself from other brands.

It gives you a unique opportunity to build that know, like and trust. So when you were saying a minute ago, and I love the fact that you're doing this, that you're talking to your customers, this gives you an opportunity to actually have those conversations. So one of the things I'd recommend, in addition to your newsletters, is I'd find a way to get feedback from your community.

Hey, we're going to come out with banana next month. What do you think? Or we're going to come out with a raspberry.

What do you think? And have your community help you choose what the next flavor is, or what you're going to do next, or how to promote, or where the product is. And then here's the best part.

If I'm part of your community and I love your product and I can only buy it online, well then with your help, you can urge me to do this, I'll go into my local retail store and I'll ask them where my Keto Crisp is. And by doing that, they will hopefully put it on their shelf if enough people ask. So, anyhow, that's where I was going with that.

So, we can come back to that in a little bit, but that's a strategy I would definitely recommend. And the point being is that it would give you the opportunity to have that one-on-one relationship conversation with your customers that you miss.

Right. I mean, you bring up a great point and this is something that we do. For example, with our almond butter chocolate chip that we launched several months ago, we sent out samples to our top 50 or 100 customers.

And there's nothing more that I love than connecting with the customers. And I believe the ultimate to your business is to be able to provide that great customer touch and that authenticity. It's so important to us that we have a community manager just dedicated to reaching out to customers and connecting people any way that we possibly can.

And we're always looking for ways to reach out and build that customer base because, you know, customers are looking to that more than ever. They're looking to connect to the brand. They're looking to put a face with the brand, to feel, touch it, all that stuff.

You know, people love the warm and fuzzies. We want to kill them with kindness every single day. I love that.

And they have so many choices to choose from. And we want them to know that we're here for them, whether it's food, whether it's in life, whether it's whatever, because, you know, it all goes back to people. And when I was, you know, I say this a lot when I talk about, you know, growing up in the unique perspective that I came from, nobody pushed me in a corner.

They knew that I was special, not because I sat in a chair, but because of my unbridled passion for people, my love for life, and my enthusiasm just to go out there and do whatever it took to be successful. I just wanted to be successful like everybody else. And success is cut up in different ways.

It could be financial, it could be with relationships, just or enjoying life or all the above. You know, it's just being happy with who you are and always feeling comfortable in your skin. And I've always felt that way.

Such an inspiration. And it kind of goes back to what I was telling you about with my friend in college. You could not, he didn't understand the word no.

He was, he had more faith, more drive. You know, the biblical story about the faith of the mustard seed. So he would, I mean, that was him.

The point was that can do effort, never stop, never give up. And I love the fact that you're so connected to people. This is why I wanted to have you on the podcast, because you're so authentic.

And that carries through in the way that you communicate about your brand, the high touch points. So now that you're reaching out to your community about building your brand, here's one of the things that I don't think a lot of people think about. For you to put a product, a bar, in a package, that takes about three to four months.

And then for you to get it on a store shelf, you get about six months to prove whether or not the product will sell. You got to pay slotting and you got to promote it and all that other stuff. That costs a lot of money.

Here you can send out something in basically a ziplock bag and say, what do you think? And I can tell you yes or no right away. And I can save you literally tens of thousands of dollars when it comes to innovating and creating a product that I like or that I will go out and buy from you.

And then the other best part is that as party community, I know what it is. I'm going to celebrate it. I'm going to tell everyone I can about it because I'm looking forward to it.

So that's going to help you grow your sales outside of promoting your product, which is one of the best things that any brand could do. Your thoughts?

I 100% agree. I mean, I encourage customers all the time. And I get into trouble with this because I pass out so many freaking coupons because I want everybody and anybody to try it and put it in their mouth, you know, because once they do, we feel like it's game over.

And nobody's going to champion that than an existing customer.

Exactly.

Because they love to tell their friends and friends tell their friends, I can't tell you, Dan, how many messages that I get. Hey, I told my friend John this or Sally this and they love the product. So, you know, you know, I understand the importance of that.

And I'm so thankful. We as a team are so thankful for all the support we get. And, you know, that's really you know, how you build a brand is you get one customer and then they, you know, they tell their friends and so on and so forth.

It's a snowball effect. I love it. Yeah, it's great.

I think it's fantastic. In fact, one of the other things about digital, when we get back to the brand in a minute, is that I've been focused because of COVID, I lean in and I started a free weekly webinar series for brand owners and store owners, etc. to come in and get your biggest bottleneck solved, your biggest problem solved.

So I've been finding people in the industry that can answer all the questions that people send me. And one of the things that I recommend, I've been focusing more on trade marketing. So how do you reduce the amount of money that you spend to promote your product?

The frame is this, that 25% of your gross sales are tied to your trade marketing, yet 70% of those dollars are wasted or ineffective. So if you can approve that by any efficiency, that's what we're talking about. How do I make sure I get the right product in the right store, in front of the right person, etc.?

So one of the strategies that I've been promoting is that through your community, if I'm part of your community, give me an extra incentive to be a part of your community that rewards me different from the way that you put your, you discount your product on the shelf. So the point being is if I had Keto Crisp on my shopping list and I go to the store and I was going to buy your product anyhow and you give me a coupon or give me a discount, well, that's good for me, but it doesn't help you. The focus of every promotion should be to introduce your product to a new customer.

However, if you can reward me outside of traditional retail by however you would do it, coupon whatever it is, and then get me to celebrate or evangelize your product to someone else. That's a far better way to promote your product and it's a lot less expensive and it reduces your trade spend. So just something to think about as you're going forward when you're trying to, when you're building your community.

Did you want to say something?

Yeah, I just wanted to ask, what strategies have you seen that work well for you? You bring up an interesting point. We're always looking for ways to obviously find new customers to let them know about the brand.

And there are, there are a lot of dollars spent to, you know, acquire that customer.

Yeah. In fact, that's one of the things a lot of people talk about. And thank you for answering this question.

So a lot of people talk about what is the cost of acquisition, acquiring a customer. That's one piece of it. The second piece of it is what is the cost to reacquire them later.

So when I had Whole Foods, the marketing director for Whole Foods Market, she said that they were spending $270 to reacquire the same customer at their store. Think about that. That's ridiculous.

That's money that we, the consumers, have to pay for them to reacquire a customer. The point is that if you can get me to become a loyal customer, a loyal evangelist about your product, then it's going to cost a lot less to keep me in your network, in your community, right? By you reaching out, by you making me feel good about the product, then it is to reacquire me again and again and again.

And that's what a lot of trade spending is. So to answer your question, you know, the thing you want to do is you want to look for groups that understand the benefit of it. So high fat, you know, groups understand low sugar, low carbs, etc.

I would look at the healthy athletes. I would look at new moms. I would look at different groups, maybe plant based groups that are really focused on, you know, what are the trends, what are the things people are really looking to, but, you know, the larger group.

So give me an example. I live in Denver, Colorado, close to Boulder. And in Boulder, we get a lot of the top athletes in the country, in the world that come to Boulder to practice and be cyclists and stuff like that.

So we've got a really robust community of high performance athletes. Well, if you could introduce your product to that group, then they would evangelize it among their group. Years ago, I did a project where we found out that one of the, it was a sunflower based product.

And we found that it was really, really great for collagen and skin and stuff like that. And we found out that one of the key groups that could use it would be expecting moms. So we reached out and we found expecting moms, those kind of groups.

And so find the people that are in your niche, the people that understand the value of your product, and then invite them into your community. Does that help?

For sure. Like I said, we're constantly building our community and looking at certain groups that we can get involved in and new moms, you know, wanting to lose weight or athletes, you know, that are, you know, cycling or whatever. And I was in Denver for a trade show a few months before COVID.

And I was so impressed. It was so cold, but yet people were still working out. And, you know, it was just a great, it was a great community for us.

It was really, really beneficial.

Yeah, there's so many. And thank you for saying it. I love it.

That's why I won't move. But yeah, find those communities and figure out how to connect with them. OK, so now the next thing we need to do, and this is the focus of just about, actually, this is the focus of everything I talk about at the podcast and the courses, et cetera, is how do you communicate the value of your unique consumer to the retailer?

And so, generically speaking, retailers don't make anything, they sell other people's stuff. So what retailers want, Adam, they want more traffic in their store, they want a reasonable profit in the category, and they want a competitive advantage in their market. And so, as a brand, if you can help the retailer get those three things, then they, if they're savvy, will bend over backwards to help you get more, help you display more, help you get more promotions, et cetera.

So if you can figure out a way to drive your community, athletes, whatever it is, into their store, gluten-free consumers into their store, et cetera. And if you can show them that you can do more to drive category growth, profits in their store, because you're a super premium product, the kind of product that people are willing to pay, go out of their way to pay a premium for. And in addition to that, the people that buy your product buy a lot of other premium items, therefore you're more valuable to the retailer.

And then in addition to that, how do you help that retailer compete against their competition? And so weaving that story into your selling story as you're working with a brand, that's what I help companies do. And so for the example of what we're talking about now, take advantage of your online community, invite as many people you can into it, get those insights about how people use your product, how they like it, when they buy your product, what are the things they buy with it?

And then put that into your selling story so that when you go to the retailer, they understand that you're far more valuable to them than a product that's 10 for 10 or some low budget or low price product. Because it's your product that is giving them a competitive advantage and helping them compete against the Amazons of the world and every other retailer. Does that make sense?

Absolutely.

When you talk about a strategy, you bring up the situation of selling them your bar. When you bring other products, can you give me an example of that or are you just talking about other skews that we're offering?

No. Good question. So Market Basket.

So Market Basket is the sum total of everything you purchase when you leave the store. So if I have two comments, two concepts I want to share with you. One is share of wallet.

So if I have $400 a month and I'm going to spend it, I write down everything on my list that I need and I walk into a store. The goal of the retailer should be to try to get me to spend as much of that $400 in their store and not inviting me to go shop somewhere else because they don't have what I need. The second thing is Market Basket.

So Market Baskets is some total of everything I buy. So if I buy Keto Crisp, what other items am I buying with Keto Crisp? Let me give you a really good example.

Actually, let's stay in the keto world. So if I buy Keto Crisp, I buy Perfect Keto, I buy Ancient Grains, I'm trying to think of some other keto brands, brands that are specifically around the keto diet. I buy Caragold Butter that's organic, grass-fed, etc.

I buy a lot of those kinds of products in my market basket, my shopping basket, that are far more valuable than the customer that does it. And so as you understand what your customer is buying, and this is what you should be doing in your communities, reaching out and asking these questions, then ask them what are they buying, and then be able to leverage that or share that with the retailer. So, give you an example.

If I go in and I buy the just BRAND X, the cheapy, generic, whatever brand, bar, right? And I pay a dollar for it, okay? And I look in the market basket, I may spend only $4 or $5 total in my market basket in one trip.

If I buy a keto crisp, I might spend $20 or $30 at one trip. Does that make sense? And so, and the profits are greater because all the items I'm buying are going to be premium or super premium products.

So there's more profit going to the store. Does that make sense?

Yes. And the stores, you know, they want to keep you.

Yeah.

I mean, it's huge for them.

Yeah. And so, go ahead.

No. You know, at the end of the day, I think it's also important. You know, we talk to these retailers all the time, and right now they're really struggling in the bar category because there's really nothing innovative there.

So we always talk about being innovative, you know, with the clean ingredients and then also connecting to the customer. It's absolutely critical because that's how we pattern our business. You know, for example, down the road, you know, we're coming out in 2021 with a vegan bar.

And the reason why we are is because, you know, so many of our customers said, Adam, you know, you got to have a plant-based bar. I'm vegan. And so, you know, we're working on that right now, and we're excited about that.

And we always want to be innovative and forward thinking to constantly add that value.

Which is so important. And I'm sure if you share that with the retailers, they would say, wow, you're trying to help us because that's what they're trying to do. They're trying to figure out a way to connect with that plant-based consumer.

So this is where you have that one-on-one relationship with the retailer and you help them remain relevant, meaning help them compete against the online, against the other competitive threats in their market. Again, the goal is to try to keep your customer coming back to their store again and again and again. And this is why I try to help companies like you become a category leader, not a category captain, a category leader, meaning you sharing insights that the retailer doesn't have access to anywhere else and you helping that retailer gain the competitive advantage, learn how to best capitalize on the fact that your customer is so much more valuable than other brands' customers.

And so this is exactly the story you want to talk. Share, yes?

So specifically, what kinds of things do you recommend that brands say, for example, us, would tell the retailer?

Well, when you're putting together a selling story, so I put together a free Trinket Sales Story Strategies course where I cover this. And it's, again, it's free, but put this way, if you had an opportunity, as you have, to go talk to each one of your customers one-on-one, and you get to know them, and you find out what do they buy when they buy your product, and how do they want your product merchandise. And you become an expert in your product, in your competitor's product, and then you become an expert in the retailer.

And then when you weave all that together with your brand story, not just the fact that you have a gluten-free product, but who's the consumer that buys it. Not female head of household 2.3 kids, but do they like to hike, do they like yoga, are they involved in their community, etc. So the more intimately you know your customer, you weave that into your story.

And then what I help brands do is I overlay that with the data so that I can say, here's what's driving sales in the category, plant-based, vegan, gluten-free, whatever it is, keto. But I break a note out in the database so that it's actually properly attributed. Some of the databases don't do that well.

So then what we do is we take in what they call the fact-based story, the data, and then we take in your consumer shopper data, which is about the consumer. We weave those together and we tell the retailer, we give them a strategy based upon the customer that shops or store, based upon the customer that's going to do more to drive profit and sales and foot traffic in their store. Does that help?

Yes.

So at the end of the day, that's what the podcast is about.

Go ahead. So what brands have you seen? What brands have you worked with in the bar category?

I've worked with a lot. There are some on my website that I've worked with, but I've worked with bars that are vegan, plant-based, gluten-free. We love your product.

We're talking about you. And I've had a lot of different bar companies on the podcast as well.

No, I just think it's fascinating what you do, especially your focus is really on retail. How long have you been doing this kind of work for, Dan?

Since before you were born. I'm just kidding. No, I started doing this.

Okay, thank you for answering the question. I used to be a grocery manager, used to be a DSD driver. So I've kind of worked on both sides of the fence.

I went to work for Unilever, where I was classically trained in category management. I worked for Kimberly Clark. I even worked for Spins.

I'm the one who developed or designed the distribution tracker. And I got them to start selling retail and store level data.

Well, and let me know. I can help you dig into it and get those insights that the data overlooks. But it's so, anyhow, then taking those insights and being able to bake them into your selling story.

FSo I've been doing this for many, many years. I worked with, you know, big companies like Nestle and Power Bar, those kind of bars where they're more generic. And actually, I brought one of the first, one of the original power bars, energy bars, into the store when I worked at Price Club, which is now Costco.

It was like a really dense loaf of bread. But, you know, you mentioned a couple, go yonder, go macro, yonder, go macro, a bunch of, anyhow, a bunch of different brands. But, but yeah, I've been doing this for a long time.

And the, my mission is to make our healthy way of life by making your products, getting your products and more store shelves in the hands of more shop. And that's the focus of everything we're talking about. And that's the focus of the podcast, the courses, etc.

So it's these strategies that differentiate you from other brands. And what I want to do is I want to help you level the playing field against the most sophisticated competitor out there.

You know, I think that as we always have to have our heads on a swivel, right? And looking around and seeing what competitors are doing and how to get that competitive advantage. You said in the beginning of the podcast, the call, you know, it's such a competitive landscape.

You got to do everything you can to stay ahead of the game. And, you know, I think our biggest differentiators in our opinion is our great taste and our great texture and the ability to always want to innovate and come up with the next best flavor or next best thing, you know, along with the authenticity of the story and, you know, the whole deal. But like I said, it is critical to have the data that you're providing.

Well, in our time, and by the way, I don't provide the data. I just do the analysis for you. So just a point of clarification.

But, you know, if you're in Denver, Colorado, and you want to know how well you're doing in the natural category, there's no database on the planet that's going to answer that. So I have creative strategies to help you get around that. The other issue is that a lot of the databases aren't coded around the way the customer shops your category.

And what I'm getting at is that when you're looking at keto, or you're looking at gluten free or whatever, some of the items in the database may not be coded properly, or may not be coded to reflect the way your unique customer shops. And so that's another thing I help brands with. But the point being is, how do I help you tell the best story so that the retailer will turn to you again and again and again for more information to help support them?

And the best part about it is, if I do this right, then savvy retailers might even give you access to their data. They might even give you incremental opportunities to promote your product that they wouldn't give to other brands. And that's where my biggest successes lie.

That's what I built my career on, being able to push around big brands like P&G and Frito and stuff like that by leveraging these insights. So, did I answer your question?

Yeah, I mean, you're a wealth of knowledge and you've got these tools that are available and I think it's great to explore them and see what could benefit Keto Crisp. I mean, obviously, every day you want to get better and improve, right?

Right.

Data is power. Knowledge is power. Exactly.

And I get here that your focus is retail. What is your thoughts on the conventional landscape of the grocery store market versus natural?

Let me back up a little bit, answer something I thought about while you were talking and then I'm going to answer that question. One of the challenges is that a lot of companies are taught that they use cookie cutter strategies. They walk into a retailer's office, they throw a canned top on a report and say, here you go, look, aren't I doing great?

You need something that's going to differentiate your brand, your story from any other brand. Every brand out there does the exact same thing. You need a story that's unique and that begins with the customer that buys your product, your unique customer.

That's why I keep going back to the customer, right? So I'm the only one that really does it at that level in this industry. And I'm not trying to be braggadocious, but the point is the strategies that I teach brands, again, most of the stuff is free on the podcast, etc.

That's a roll up my sleeves and get really get, you know, help you. But the point is, leveraging these strategies are going to help you compete against the biggest brands out there. So to answer your question about conventional or mainstream.

I was just curious to get your take. You know, we were focused on the national food space, grocers, Whole Foods Sprouts, you know, Trader Joe's, that kind of thing. What is your what is your take on the conventional grocery stores as well?

As far as categories, is there just a different strategy that you use between natural and conventional?

Well, in my opinion, it all goes about the customer. So that's what we need to focus on first. To answer your question, no, but we need to use a different selling story.

So let me frame it this way. I did a feature article for the 2016 Category Management Handbook, where Nielsen gave me access to all their data, to all our data. And I was able to prove that natural organic products are the ones that were driving sustainable sales across every category.

And if you remove them, every category would be flat or declining. Pre-COVID, big brands were declining in sales. They weren't growing at the level that they used to.

Customers want healthier products. So when I talk about the story, you need to help big retailers understand why your product is more valuable to them. And that gets back to contribution.

So you should never try to compete on velocity. Velocity is what you told you need to have everywhere. The reality is, there's no way that you can compete against the larger brands when it comes to velocity.

But you do contribute more profit, more dollars, more customer growth, etc. to the category. So when we're talking about one, your customer, the value of your customer, and then we talk about your ability to contribute more dollars to the category, give the retailer competitive advantage, that's a unique selling story that brands aren't sharing with mainstream or conventional retailers.

So in the natural retailers, they get it more or less. It's an easier sell because they understand your product, the value of your product, etc. But when you're talking to the bigger retailers, you really got to focus in on how you can drive unique customers, more customers, better customers into the store.

Does that answer your question?

Yes. How does a local distributor play, in your opinion? Because one of the things that we work with a lot of local distributors, so that when Joe Schmoe walks into a retailer, they have some idea what KetoKrist is all about.

Well, okay, that's another good question. So first of all, your brand story needs to be communicated across your entire sales funnel. Everyone on your team, your brokers, your distributor, everyone needs to communicate the value of the brand with the same passion and authenticity as you do.

And that's hard. And that begins with the education within your team, within your distributor, etc. So if you can get them on board and you can help them understand the value of KetoKrist versus other products and what's unique about your customer, that is the first thing you do.

But what I encourage brands to do, Adam, is I think that you should keep your hand firmly on the rudder of your ship. In other words, the strategy decisions and stuff like that should come from you, from your company, and then you should leverage your brokers and your distributors to execute on your behalf. There are brokers and distributors that will go get you volume, go get your distribution in stores that don't make sense, that are outside of the area where you could support them.

You don't want to go there. You want to focus on the stores in your backyard and grow out sustainably, and you want to focus on the stores where your customer shops. And that's why, again, you leverage your online community to find out where they're buying your products.

Does that help?

Yes, sure.

Cool. Well, go ahead.

Especially as a newer brand like we are, we want to be able to control that and monitor it. And we just don't, you know, it's one thing to get on the shelf. The next thing is how do we sustain that?

And we sustain it, we believe, by, you know, number one, pre-COVID demoing. You know, we were selling record bars. I would sell 100 bars at a time in a demo session.

Unfortunately, though, we can't clone 1500 atoms to every store. And then, you know, COVID hit, so now we're focusing on promos and different kinds of things. And, you know, really exciting news, we're the number one bar in all the fresh markets, which is really good.

You know, so we just keep staying humble and hungry and just keep working hard at it. But, you know, anytime we get an opportunity to learn from somebody like yourself, who's been around and has some great tools to pass along, I'm greatly appreciative of it for sure.

Well, anytime I can help, I mean, please consume the content. That's why it's there. And again, thank you so much for coming on the podcast.

Let me back up a little bit. We didn't get a chance to talk about why you chose the bar category. But what is it like being in the bar category?

What struggles do you have? Where could we find your brand?

You know, the struggle that we have are being a new brand, is that, and just kind of, you know, building a name for ourselves and just getting after it. I wouldn't say struggle. I would again say it's an opportunity to learn and grow and just continue to work hard.

You know, obviously, competition is critical in that category. We're just trying to figure out the right angles to play. And, you know, how can we identify our customer even further?

And are we just winning because we got a great tasting bar? What are the factors why we're winning or why aren't we winning? And what do we need to do to make sure that we continue to win?

Love your story. And that's exactly what we're talking about. Leverage your online community.

Leverage your passion throughout your entire team. That's infectious. Make sure everyone catches the bug.

By the way, while we're talking, I've got your website up, and I keep getting those flashes on the screen saying, somebody bought something all over the world, which is really cool to see. That's neat. But no, just keep up, keep doing what you're doing.

And then one of the things that we should talk about is strategy, really in-depth strategy. Where does your consumer live? How do you get to your consumer?

How do you make sure your product is available wherever it needs to be? And then make sure that you're telling the right story when you're working with a retailer. So now that you've got a story that says that you're the number one brand in a retailer, which, congratulations, that's really cool.

Now we need to figure out how do you communicate that to other retailers? Let them know what you did to get to that point. And let them know how you're doing more to drive traffic, customers and stuff like that into their store.

So as you're developing your online community, start surveying them and asking them, what do you buy when you buy our product? How did you buy our product? Where did you learn about our product?

Where do you shop? Get to know them on a little bit more of a personal level. And that will give you those insights that you can then leverage at retail.

Does that help?

Yes. I mean, we're constantly, you know, we're working on building a platform to be able to engage more with our customers. Like I said, that I believe is the most critical part of the business, being able to engage and understand where they're at, what their buying habits are, you know, what drew them to the product in the first place, you know, it takes, you know, in such a crowded space like the bar category, you know, what made them think Keto Crisp?

Why Keto Crisp? Did they hear about it from a friend? Did they, you know, what even got them into Keto?

Tell me about that, you know, because, you know, everybody's got a personal success story and we want to champion every one of those.

I love that. That is so cool. You are such an inspiration.

You really are. I mean, my hat's off to you and I'm just so thrilled that you made time for us. Thank you so much for coming on.

Do you have any other questions you want to ask me? Usually at the end, I give you an opportunity to ask me, what is your most pressing bottleneck? But we've been talking about that a lot.

If you've got an additional question, let me know.

No, I just would love to get some more information on how I can learn more about what you're providing. I'm really grateful for the opportunity to have a few minutes to talk with you.

Well, thank you. Well, first of all, go back and listen to the podcast. I've got 208 of them out now.

And with The Who's Who, where I'm answering your most pressing bottlenecks, I've got the YouTube channel, which includes a lot of the interviews, video interviews like this one will be there eventually. And then on top of that, I've got a lot of shorter videos where I answer specific questions. I've got the free weekly webinar series where I answer specific questions.

I bring in experts to answer questions that I can't answer about funding and stuff like that. And so that's there. So that's every Friday.

In addition to that, you know, reach out to me because I'm always here. So that's how we actually met. Actually, my wife found you, fell in love with the product, and that's how we got connected.

But the point is, you're not alone. There are a lot of people out there willing and anxious and eager to help you succeed. And what I'm trying to do is I'm trying to be that hub or bring all those people together, bring that hub for people to come in and help support brands like you.

Because again, if I can help you succeed, then that helps improve our healthy way of life. And if I can help you get your product and more store shelves in the hands of more shoppers, well, then that helps to validate, it helps support what you're trying to do too, which are any missions you're trying to give back, any support that you're trying to give to the community, etc. Which we talked a little bit about that and you do.

What's the bottleneck thing that you're seeing pre-COVID now that brands are having a challenge? What do you see mostly?

That's a good question.

What are you being asked?

Well, pre-COVID, what I see is a lot of brands are being, they're frustrated and they're struggling. And a lot of that has to do with the cookie cutter strategies that they've been using. Now, you know, they're good brokers, bad brokers, good consultants, bad consultants, just to frame everything.

But the point is a lot of the bigger companies, the brokers, etc. have to rely on cookie cutter strategies to be successful because that's part of their model. A lot of the companies that, you know, you buy data from and they process the data, they use cookie cutter strategies that, again, it's the same stuff every other brand uses.

You need to differentiate yourself. So that's one thing is in terms of how do you stand out on a crowded shelf? That's the biggest bottleneck everyone has.

The second thing is how do you reduce your spending? And so there are programs out there, for example, that I would liken to be QuickBooks for trade marketing. Trade marketing is everything that you spend to get your product in the hands of a shopper.

And so, and by the way, that's a little bit broad compared to a lot of people, but it really should include everything that you spend for demo, slotting, the whole bit, because it all goes into the single bucket of promoting your product. So the next question is how do I help you reduce that? On my website, there's a button on the top.

There's a free promotion ROI calculator. Again, it's free. It'll tell you how much you're spending on average, and it'll tell you how much you could save if you reduce your inefficiencies.

And then below that, it'll tell you what the lift is on a certain promotion or how much if you spend more money to promote it or you get a display or whatever. How does that impact your promotion? And the reason that's there is to help you help other brands like you find ways to tweak and improve their promotional spending.

So leverage that.

Where do you find brands are wasting the most dollars?

Honestly, it's everything and it's everything above. And so the problem is that if a distributor says you should promote your product with them, I would say no, unless they can prove that you are getting performance. In other words, if they say, give us $8,000, we're going to promote the product to a bunch of people, whatever, a bunch of stores.

I would say no to that automatically, unless you can pay them on what scans to the register. Because then there's pay for performance. That's the biggest waste of money, in my opinion.

The second biggest waste of money is that a lot of people use the rinse and repeat strategy. This is what we did last year. This is what our competition does.

So this is what we're going to do. So a retailer is going to come to you and say, Adam, I want you to promote five times a year. Well, most brands do that because they don't know any better.

Instead, if you understood how to manage your trade promotions effectively, you could say, you know what? Five times a year is not going to do anything to drive sales in your store. It's not going to help me as a brand.

But if I can do it three times a year, and I can go deeper and maybe throw in my social media and all that other stuff, I might be doing a better job driving more traffic in your store, more profit in the category, etc. If you think about some of the categories that are out there, like cereal, for example, years ago, cereal category trained their customers to only buy the product when it was on sale. So people wouldn't buy the product at regular price.

That pulled all the dollars out of the category, all the profit. So that's what you need to do is help the retailer understand how do I drive sales in the store by leveraging the strength of your product. Does that help?

Yeah. And I think newer brands like Keto Chris, you know, on one hand, we want to be aware of what we're spending, but on the other hand, we're so excited in the opportunity to be in the retailer. So it's kind of like, you know, you learn as you go and being aware of what's available.

It certainly helps. Time is an invaluable teacher. So we're learning every day and the tools that are out there certainly help us make better decisions.

Well, and if I can help you avoid those pitfalls and those bottlenecks and those mistakes, then that's going to give you more runway to fuel your growth. It's going to give you more runway to grow sustainable cells, etc. So take advantage of those tools, please.

And let me know what I can do to help support you. Tell us how we can get Keto Crisp. How can we connect with you?

You can certainly visit us on our website, ketocrisp.com, Amazon. We've got it. And then coming to a local retailer near you every single day.

We're working hard to do that. And we certainly appreciate the support there.

Well, anytime. Thank you for coming on. By the way, it's Keto Crisp with a K.

Crisp, so thank you for coming on. And I really appreciate your time. And enjoy the rest of your week.

You got it. Thanks so much. Take care.

It was great to talk to you. And thank you so much for the education.

Thank you. Appreciate it. I want to thank Adam for coming on.

He is so determined. You can learn so much from him. I love the fact that he's so resilient.

The fact that he doesn't take no for an answer. The fact that once he makes up his mind, he will do whatever it takes to succeed. Something that we can all learn about.

Something that would benefit all of us. I'll be certain to put a link to Adam and The Keto Crisp on the podcast web page and in the podcast show notes. In addition to The Essential Promotion Blueprint, this is going to help you frame what you need to know in terms of how do you schedule promotion, what are the things you need to be thinking about, how do you get in front of the right customer and much more.