BRAND SECRETS AND STRATEGIES

PODCAST #35

Hello and thank you for joining us today. This is the Brand Secrets and Strategies Podcast #35

Welcome to the Brand Secrets and Strategies podcast where the focus is on empowering brands and raising the bar.

I’m your host Dan Lohman. This weekly show is dedicated to getting your brand on the shelf and keeping it there.

Get ready to learn actionable insights and strategic solutions to grow your brand and save you valuable time and money.

LETS ROLL UP OUR SLEEVES AND GET STARTED!

Dan: Welcome. While doing research for today's podcast, I was doing research into our guest and into the brand as I always do. I was reminded of the story this time of the movie Field of Dreams where the theme was if you build it, they will come. In today's story, I learned about Ethan Brown and his journey to solve some of the problems of the we talk about on this podcast in different ways. For example, talking about making our healthy way of life more accessible by producing alternative solutions for people who are trying to watch their cholesterol or their blood pressure or some of those other health issues or concerns that so many people are focused on, in addition to that, helping our environment, by reducing greenhouse gases and reducing the number of animals that are required to produce food for us.

Ethan Brown is the founder of Beyond Meat. I highly recommend that you listen to the podcast episode that he did with NPR on their website. I will put a link to it in the show notes and on this episode's webpage. I love working with, interviewing and speaking to disruptive brands that are trying to differentiate themselves through authentic, mission based objectives. This is something that the brand takes on because it's part of their DNA. It's not something that they're doing to try to gain extra support. It is who they are. They give back. On today's episode, I have the privilege of talking to Chuck who is Beyond Meat's Chief Growth Officer.

Chuck was kind enough to share with us, how a brand can leverage social media and consumer demand to help them get their products on retailer's shelves and into the hands of more consumers while helping to guide retailers to understand and educate them on the new trends in the marketplace, to help them give their customers the products and the solutions that they're looking for. It's a relationship between the brands and the retailers that we're trying to foster here on this podcast and in all of my content and in my free course. Today, Chuck talks about how they're able to leverage their story at retail, to help retailers carve out a space for them to meet the needs of that health conscious consumer that is looking for alternative solutions, to support their needs and the needs of their family. Here's Chuck. Hello, Chuck. I want to thank you for coming on today. Can you start by telling us a little bit about yourself, your background and your journey to Beyond Meat?

Chuck: Yeah, sure. I appreciate being here today. Actually, most of my career has been spent on the beverage side. I worked for Coke for many years, both on the distribution side and the bottling system and also on the parent company side. Most recently, I lead the emerging brand unit of Coca-Cola, the sales and commercial side of that which included brands like Honest Tea, ZICO Coconut, Hanson's, most that are small, more healthy but fast growing brands within the Coke system. I actually retired at the end of last year and shortly after got a call from Seth Goldman who is the founder and Executive Chairman of Honest Tea and the Executive Chairman of Beyond Meat. He called me and asked me to come on out to California and enjoy the weather and also join this amazing company called Beyond Meat that's been amazing growth and so forth. So it's been a very good journey so far.

Dan: So okay. By the way, congratulations on retiring and then get called back again. So with Beyond Meat, can you tell us a little bit about the brand, about the story. By the way, I listened to Ethan's, the interview he did on NPR on your website and I'll put a link to that in the show notes, and I loved the fact that he's framing this as an alternative, that it's something that's better for not only for people but for the planet. He goes into it in great detail and shares his story which I think is inspirational. But can you share your thoughts and your ... What you'd like to share with the audience about Beyond Meat, why it's different, why it's unique and what are you trying to accomplish as a brand?

Chuck: Yeah. Well, first, we have a couple of different products. We do have what we call frozen line which is really ingredient. We have chicken strips and beef crumbles and sausage crumbles and so forth. But our real breakthrough product, what is called Beyond Burger and it came out about a year and a half ago now. As you mentioned, I mean, there's plenty of reasons to eat plant-based products or eat more plant-based meals. First and foremost is health reasons. I mean, there's plenty of health reasons why, plenty of research out there that will say that eating more plant-based foods is a better and healthier choice for consumers. But also, as you mentioned, environmental, I mean, a huge part of the environmental greenhouse gas is caused by animals, by the number of animals we have on the planet. We've seen research that have said anywhere from 18 to 51%, either one of those numbers are large themselves. But a significant amount of the greenhouse gas is caused by the animals.

You also have the animals themselves, there's 66 billion animals a year that are slaughtered for food globally. So there's all those reasons and those are all pillars of why we think what we're doing is important. But also interesting, as you said, we're not really targeting just only for vegan and vegetarians. I mean it's a mission company. Vegan and vegetarians are already there. So what we're really targeting, meat reducers or flexitarians, folks that are looking not necessarily to give up meat but to occasionally eat plant-based products and increase the amount of plant-based meals they're eating during the course of the week and so we're providing that alternative. We're not preachy about it. We're not trying to say eating meat is necessarily a bad thing. We're just saying we have alternatives here and we're going to offer them hopefully in ways that are not going to make you sacrifice. They're going to taste much like the animal-based alternatives that you have.

Dan: To go back to what we were talking about, I mean, back to what Ethan said rather, the fact that greenhouse gases and thank you for mentioning that, I don't think a lot of people realize that with the deforestation and within the plants being reduced and with increased population, that means that it's harder for all the plants to keep our air clean and recycle it and that's so important so thank you for getting into that. So as far as the fact that you're saying that you're not preachy, again, I really like that because it's not saying you're bad if you eat meat. One of the things I really appreciate when we were talking before is the fact that this is a growing segment. Again, I keep referring back to a featured article they had for the 2016 category management handbook where I identified that these small segments, plant-based, organic, gluten-free, et cetera, are the key drivers across every category.

The point being that if you remove that small server of sales that is plant-based, then that's ... Then most categories are flat or declining. So can you share a little bit about some of the struggles or some of the challenges that you face in terms of working with retailers? Because I know you just got into a lot of stores.

Chuck: Well, yeah. Again, we have two lines of products. We have the frozen line which is by the way, precooked so it's really a reheat type of meal option. We're in about 20,000 stores today with that product. It's available in most major retailers in the US in some way. But again, Beyond Burger is the one that has been the explosive growth and the one that requires some unique selling whereas our frozen line, just a meat alternative that goes into the meat alternative section of the stores that have that, in the frozen section. The Beyond Burger was a challenge because we really redefined where that could be merchandised. We're actually merchandising it in the meat section in the stores. So we're sitting with our Beyond Burger patties right next to the beef patties or turkey patties as you will in conventional retailers. We have had explosive growth. We're currently around 8,000 stores but growing literally every month.

Because I think a lot of retailer, well, it was initially a hard sell, it was a very difficult sell because you were convincing a department to look outside of their traditional animal-based offerings to a plant-based offering. So it took a couple of I think really progressive retailers to see the opportunity and see the trends and embrace it and take a bold move and put it in there but once they did, and once we began seeing the sales coming through that, it became easier to convince other retailers of the same opportunity.

Dan: Well, and yeah-

Chuck: We do look by the way-

Dan: Go ahead, I'm sorry.

Chuck: We do look at the dairy case as a good example. We've used the analogy as well that if you look at what's happened in milk, where not so many years ago, cows milk was by the far the predominant item sold in that section but today many stores you'll see coconut waters and of course cashews and almond milks and all types of plant-based milk products are now sold there. In some cases, having more space than cow milk.

Dan: Absolutely. That's kind of what I was going to say is that it's a fixed amount of space. For anyone who's not really familiar with the category, both the meat category and milk, and thank you for bringing that up, is that it's a finite amount of space. What you're essentially doing is you're taking away space that other brands would occupy so to use the plant-based milk if you will, that's a growing category and that's what's actually driving sales within the category itself, an organic milk as was the focus of the article, also talking about plant-based. So being able to convince retailers that you have a valuable contribution within that category, are you doing it with the numbers? Are you doing it with the consumer data? Because long story short, it's the consumer that comes into the store that buys your product that is more valuable to the consumer than the consumer that might buy like a generic bread or something like that.

Chuck: Yeah, that's a good point. I mean, we do, our consumer, we do have data that supports that but our consumers tend to be higher educated with higher income levels and less price sensitive and you really need to be because our product is priced at this point in our development high. Higher than most of the animal counterparts. So it is a bigger reign. Again, someone who's not more as price sensitive with bigger basket size and so forth, so yeah, that's a better consumer. I think it's interesting, I was out in some storage yesterday and went to a local store not far from our office. They've actually doubled the amount of basins we have in there.

Dan: Good.

Chuck: But we were out of stock. So we had a nice line here but no products. So I approached the meat manager who's standing nearby and said, "Where's the Beyond Burger product here?" He goes, "Oh yeah." He goes, "I think I have it in the back. Let me go check," and went back and he goes, "Yeah. Sorry, we ran out. We're getting them in tonight." I said, "Well, how is it selling?" He goes, "We're selling three to five cases per day."

Dan: Wow.

Chuck: I go, "Well, you probably need to expand the space then if you're not going to be able to hold the shelf with that." He goes, "Yeah, I think you're right." So we're seeing, I mean, a lot of that sell is going to take care of itself. I mean, retailers are very ... Meat buyers by the way in general are more attentive to their space I think and more engaged with the shoppers in the store, just be the nature of their business, as compared to say a grocery, a grocery manager. If you go to your local store, you probably know who your meat manager is. You might know who your meat manager is, you probably know who the grocery manager is.

Dan: Absolutely.

Chuck: So they are very in tune with their customer and their customer needs and they're very focused on satisfying those needs. But the big issue really is in the initial selling because even when we get authorized in that meat section have very rarely planograms. So it's not like you have it, say you put it in that space, you're really ... It's up to the meat, meat managers have a lot of discretions in terms of what they put in their space. So it's really required for us to have a lot of conversations with meat managers. They'll say, "Yeah, I only authorize meat here but it's going to sell well for you." Once they put it in there, I think then the consumer makes that decision or shopper makes that decision. So that's been really the challenge and the struggle.

Dan: Absolutely. In fact, one of the things that I keep thinking, going back to when you said that is that like you said the meat department is a store within a store in the sense that it's not like the rest of the store. It's very much about the experience, more very much about, like you said, that personal relationship. A lot of their meat recut or repackaged or sliced or something like that and the customer service that they give, that hands on approach if you will, the theater, that is something that I think drives a lot of consumers back into the store repeatedly. So you're talking about the fact there are no planograms and the fact that this is something that you need to have relationship with the meat department. How are you communicating the value of that beyond saying that, pun intended by the way, beyond saying that if you're out of stock then you're missing that opportunity, you're missing the customer? What unique tools or strategies do you use to support that?

Chuck: Yeah and that's a great question because that's ... We're still trying to solve that. Yeah, the first line of defense for us is our broker system. So we do have a broker system that will work with the stores and we've done in a lot of initiatives with them to help improve that communication to managers. By the way, once you get it in there, it's a lot easier because it does sell. Not only does it sell but the shoppers who buy it are very vocal if you don't have it. So getting in there initially is really the big challenge. Once it's there, it only gets a lot easier. Again, we work with our broker system to get that done. That's been mixed success because unfortunately our product requires a little bit more conversation than you normally have with a brand. I mean, you have to really understand that and it's very difficult for brokers to do that when they have so many brands in their portfolio and so much time to spend in the store.

So we're trying to look at alternatives to that. We're actually going to hire a few merchandisers to key markets that we'll have on our team with the sole purpose of hitting as many stores as possible and talking with many meat managers as they can to help educate them. It's not going to solve the entire problem because we just can't hire enough people to do that but it will help us at least with some of the key markets where we need to get that communication out there very quickly.

Dan: Absolutely. In fact, that's one of the things that I talk about a lot is that brands need to have solid selling story and the example that I give and I think I talked to you about this once before with the course that I just launched is that if I tell you a story and you tell someone else and so on and so forth, by the time it gets to the 10th or 15th person, no matter how good their intentions are, that story changes and it's not the same. So for your ability to communicate that effectively, I think it's great that you're hiring merchandisers as your, if you will, your brand ambassadors to help support that.

You mentioned a moment ago price and I'm glad you did because you hear a lot of people say that price is the only driver at shelf. The reality though is that consumers what what they want. If price were the only driver, then luxury items and items will be declining in sales and they're clearly not. So the fact that you're able to hold your own on price and again, the rest of the story is that I'm glad you mentioned that is that the customer that buys your product is more discerning and they're going to buy other products that are of higher quality in the sense that it's going to better meet their nutritional needs. So what pushback Chuck are you getting in terms of price and then how do you overcome that objective?

Chuck: Well, our Beyond Burger is a little bit less price sensitive. We haven't run a lot of promotions on it. We have run some. But we really haven't need ... We haven't really had to have done that yet. We'll see this summer because we're going to be running some more. Again, it's one of those things. If you're price sensitive, it's probably not the product for you because there are certainly cheaper veggie burgers that you can buy. They may not taste as good but they are available to you and again if you're carnivore, like I am by the way, I'm not a vegetarian or vegan, like many people trying to improve my health but I still eat meat occasionally. If you're buying meat products, I mean, you can buy a 80, 20 beef patty or turkey patty for significantly less money.

So it's really the value. You're making a good point. I mean, pricing is, a lot of it is perception, what you perceive the value. For us right now, pricing isn't really the driver. It's really other reasons, things like health and wellness or if you're a vegan or vegetarian, not eating animal products. So we're getting beyond the price right now with our product down the road and there's really not a lot of competition and candidly, in the fresh section there is no competition so we're selling that in the meat counter. At this point in time, we're not seeing anyone out there with a competitive product that is going into that section. So we really don't have to do ... We don't have any price competition we have to deal with at least at this time.

Dan: That's good. In fact, on that note, I like veggie burgers and I've done a lot of work in the category so I'm very familiar with both the frozen, well, actually they'd all be frozen, within that segment and understanding that consumer that buys that category, et cetera, but to your point, I'm glad you mentioned that is that it's a very different taste profile and sensation. It doesn't taste like meat. It doesn't chew like meat. It doesn't break apart like meat. As a side note and I'm glad you ... Sort of a segue as you mentioned, the fact that you're driving so much traffic so let me frame this day, at expo, at trade shows, everywhere you guys go, there is a line around your booth and you literally, you choke off the entire isle for every other brand so sorry for them but the fact is that everyone wants to try your product.

It bleeds like meat. It looks like meat. It tastes like meat. It is so close to the real thing that you guys have done an amazing thing in terms of creating a product that consumers want that has that same taste and feel and texture, et cetera, but more importantly, it actually addresses the needs of the consumers like you said that are interested in health. So how does that work with you? Are you able to, when you're talking about promotions, are you able to go back to the fact that you've had such huge lines at trade shows and so much success at getting people to sample that? Are you using that as your strategy or what are you thinking about doing?

The reason I ask this question, not to ask you your secret sauce but is to try to help brands understand the value of communicating directly with the consumer. Because at the end of the day, if the consumers driving sales at the meat market, you mention the out of stocks, that won't happen again and you'll continue to grow space because that butcher, that meat manager wants to satisfy those customers and to your point, I'm glad you said that, they don't want to have to listen to a bunch of customers saying, "Where's my product? I'm going to go elsewhere if I can't find the stuff here."

Chuck: Yeah, I mean, they are wonderful. Of course we're not really reaching many of our outlet consumers or shoppers but we are reaching customers. Coming out of the expo west trade show where we met and where we did have lines right until 4pm on Saturday, funny I had folks coming up to me that I knew saying, "Can you sneak me one because the line is so long?" Of course, I politely told no because I didn't want to get on ... But the customer demand coming out of there, I think they see it and experience it. I mean, tasting is believing. I mean, the upcoming sausage launch will be out very soon is in my opinion even better than the burger in terms of replicating its pork counterpart, animal counterpart.

Dan: Good.

Chuck: So I mean, having those type of quality products. Again, how we get the word out to consumers is really through largely through social media and our core basic consumers tends to be the younger, it's really the millennial and gen Z, what have you, which is a core audience in an up and coming spending power consumer group that most customers really want. For us, social media is a major platform for them to be able to communicate. We, last year for instance, we had four billion media hits globally on our brand.

Dan: Congratulations.

Chuck: That we didn't pay for. I mean, that's all earned media. Yeah, that type of energy and that type of media exposure drives a lot of demand for the product and expectation for the product. So we're getting, we're fortunate to be in that place and that position. We're fortunate the timing is really right. There's a real energy and focus among the consumers around better for you type products, not just in food, in beverage as well. I come from the beverage side so I know that. We're fortunate to be in a good place to offer a real quality product that doesn't require consumers to sacrifice much on taste because taste, it does come down to taste at the end of the day. You don't have to sacrifice taste. If we could replace an animal with a plant-based product that you couldn't tell the difference which is our ultimately goal then why wouldn't you eat a healthier option?

Dan: Well, absolutely. To get into that, I mean, you talk about all the different health aspects. It reduces obesity. It reduces some of the stressors on the body if you will and of course, eating something that's alive, there's a lot of research behind that and how it really supports and fuels your health. I was looking at your website and the way that you compare your burger versus a traditional burger and you talk about the fact that there aren't some of the bad things, the cholesterols, et cetera, but it's pretty equal in terms of the profile, the protein, et cetera. That's I think a powerful message. You're talking about social media, you said that you've got a lot of earned, a lot of people that are really reaching out with social media and talking about your product, evangelizing it if you will, that's fantastic. Are you able to leverage that at retail?

Chuck: We are. I mean, I think when we're talking to retail customers and they want to know how we're going to market the brand, I mean, that's pretty powerful marketing tool.

Dan: It is.

Chuck: To share with them and particularly again because it's driven by millennials and that's a focus for many, many retailers, to both food service and retail as well. I mean, we're currently in roughly 7,500 food service accounts. We're adding 500 to 1,000 a month. I mean, we're adding quite a few. I'll give you a good example of that. We had a, and I won't name the customer, but it's a large food service customer in the US who told us that they are, annually they get on average about 850 million earned media hits on their trademark but in the first 90 days of launching Beyond Meat, they got 500 million specifically for that launch.

Dan: Congratulations.

Chuck: Which is for them I'm impressed. This is a customer that really I think wants to appeal to the millennials and bring them back into their restaurants. To hear that type of information is really validating that we know it's working.

Dan: That's fantastic. In fact, again, social media, it is the easiest, cheapest way to drive a consumer into the store and more importantly, it's the easiest way to communicate effectively with the end consumer and get that information in front of them. Are you aligned with other groups as well, example, the Heart Association, the diabetes, et cetera, those other groups?

Chuck: We are. Some are even in investors with us.

Dan: Great.

Chuck: Many of course support our mission and have been very vocal on their own social media efforts as well. The thing I want to add about social media, you mentioned, is that it's really the best type of advertising in my opinion because it's third party validating. It's not us just saying. It's other people saying it. So I think that helps a lot of our authenticity in what we're doing, that we're not just preaching about it but other people, a lot of people talk about it.

Dan: Absolutely. In fact, I keep telling brands when I work with mentoring and et cetera is that the selling starts the minute you put your name on the label or if you put the item in the package but it does not end until well after you share it with your friends and your family and so have that authentic recommendation, this is the product that I choose, and being able to them share that out for you, absolutely, that's the best way to get in front of consumers. Can you frame or talk a little bit about what are your future goals? You're talking about the new products that are coming out. By the way, I'm looking forward to trying them. When are they going to be launched and when can we look forward to them? Can you share a little bit about what those products are and where they're going to fit into the store and categories, et cetera?

Chuck: Yeah, and a couple of things of note, I want to call out to our R&D team because they were really the ones that create the magic here. We have a really talented here. They've been honestly wonderful to work with.

Dan: Good.

Chuck: We are a continuous improvement company. So the products that we have out in the market today are already under development in terms of making them better products. Again, our ultimate goal is to create plant-based products that completely replicate, you wouldn't know the difference. We have some improvements coming up later in the year. Then also within our innovation, we have a pretty robust pipeline of things that we're working on right now. Some will be revealed at the NRA show in Chicago coming up in May and so if you want to see a preview, that would probably be the place to see that.

Dan: Okay.

Chuck: We have some other ideas as well. Again, unfortunately I can't talk about them today. We are looking at every category within animal products, both including dry. So we're looking at everything at this point.

Dan: Well, no offense to the turkey burger people of the world, but it's not the same. I switched to that because it's healthier, et cetera, but having an actual meat burger if you will. But then even going back even further, cows weren't design to eat some of the things that they're eating today. The hay and the grain, et cetera. So to get an animal that has, if you will, that's fed grass, et cetera, that's such a unique profile in terms of ... It's different. It's a better flavor there. Better texture to it. The fact that you're going after, if you will, I shouldn't say going after, but you're competing against those groups or against those products, that's fantastic. We mentioned, when we were talking earlier, you talked a little bit about some of the pushback you're getting. How are you addressing that? If you don't mind my asking.

Chuck: I'm sorry. Dan, would you just brief me, pushback on?

Dan: Pushback from other groups, from meat producers, et cetera? I mean, how do you tackle that?

Chuck: Cow Associations?

Dan: Yeah, sorry.

Chuck: Well, I mean, first of all, yeah, we know from instance the dairy industry's been arguing you can't call ... You're not allowed to call plant-based milks milk. We're seeing the same thing happen with the Cattle Association, other associations associated with meat producers. Ironically, it's not, Tysen for instance company, it's not the manufacturers so much as it is the source itself, the Cattle Association. Hey, we, first of all, candidly, we don't ... We welcome the press because it actually brings even more attention to what we're trying to accomplish. We'll let the consumers decide ultimately whether the name says, Beyond Burger or something else, we'll let the consumers decide ultimately whether or not that's something that they want to buy and eat. But we think they have an uphill battle based on what's happening in the dairy area where that case had been going on for years and they haven't been able to get that accomplished. So but we'll see. We're not attacking it. We're just saying that the consumers ultimately decide.

Dan: Well and that's ultimately the bottom line. They are the decision at the end of the day. If a consumer can't find what they want and don't get the products that ... Let me back up. A good friend of mine, Bill Bishop coined the term personal supply chain. The whole idea behind that, Chuck, is that if a consumer can't find what they want at one store, they'll simply go elsewhere. So their dollars matter. Their vote in terms of their dollars matter. So the fact that they're the ones that are driving this, this initiative I think is so important. You mentioned back around the plant-based milk, et cetera, it is a fixed space within the store and I understand why a lot of retailers and et cetera are worried about their livelihood in terms of that's the group that they've been supporting for years. But long story short, the organic milks, the grass fed milks, the grass fed meat, struggled with some of the same issues because they're "doing it wrong" by not feeding the cows grain and hey, et cetera.

So do you talk any about that in terms of where the product comes from? I mean, let me ask it this way. In terms of traceability and authenticity, obviously you got that messaging on, but in terms of traceability, how do you help the consumer understand how the product is produced and how it's put together and how it ends up on a package in a store shelf?

Chuck: Well, through our website, we do try and communicate as best we can what's going into ... We're totally open in terms of what's going into our products and from that perspective. I'm going to add though too, it's not the retailer, the retailers, they just want to, as you know, they just want to ... What's best for their interest. I mean, if you have customers buying a product, they're going to give it space and they're going to make sure they maximize that opportunity. They're going to serve their customers, ultimately, the consumers, the shoppers in the store. So I don't think they care. I think the dairy manager cares. If he's selling more almond milk, he's going to space it out accordingly. The same thing will happen ultimately in the meat section and when we do see competition, I'm sure there will be competition out in the road, they're going to sell what consumers come in there to buy. They're not going to discriminate. They're in it for self interest, rightfully so and they're going to rationalize the space accordingly. So we're not as concerned. I mean, ultimately again, the shopper does decide.

Dan: So you don't run into that issue where a lot of brands are faced with where a manufacturer will effectively buy the space? You don't run into those situations in the categories that you play in?

Chuck: We don't.

Dan: That's great.

Chuck: I mean, no. We don't. Again, as I said earlier in the meeting, refer to the fresh meat space, most of that space is unplanogrammed with most customers and therefore it's really earned space and local meat manager. I don't think this is right, I mean, the local meat manager has a lot of discretions in terms how they space because they may have a certain preference in the store for turkey burgers for instance as you mentioned. I mean, they may have a high demand for turkey burgers. You're going to want to make sure you have space to satisfy the demand. So they do have a lot of discretion because it is a fresh meat case to move product around and to even to discontinue products if they want.

Dan: So in other words, something that a center store could definitely learn from because customer demand at end of the day, that's the bottom line. When you about the consumer that buys your product, do you get into what they buy with your product in terms of maybe an organic spread or plant-based spread or something like that?

Chuck: We do. I mean, we do track brands that are purchased with ours. We know some and some have been really good partners with us. I think, honestly we could do a better job there. I think one of the areas we need to get better at is that whole shopper marketing and working with other ... A lot of companies have approached us to. There are a number of companies even at the show at expo were asking if we could collaborate in some way on the marketing side and mainly because we're in a very good position right now. We're fortunate that it is a high demand item. It's getting a lot of attention. So other health and wellness brands, brands that are complementary, whether it's organic products or other products, we could benefit as well. We could both benefit from sharing.

Dan: Absolutely. Well, if you could spread the promotional dollars, as you know from your history, trade dollar, trade spending is probably the largest single line item on every brand's shelf. There are simple realities that most trade dollars are wasted in the sense that the opportunity or I should say the focus of trade dollars are to bring new customers into the line, introduce new customers to the product and to boost sales and a lot of those dollars are wasted, as you mentioned in terms of out of stocks and bad promotions, promotions that don't really connect the dots there. The fact that you're able to leverage that with another brand and spread those costs and increase your impressions, that's a really good idea. I would love to see what you do in that regard and in fact, I'd love to have that conversation with you in the future at some point.

Chuck: Yeah, sure. Absolutely. I'll make a comment though about trade dollars as well since you brought it up. Yeah, I have a pretty strong opinions about it. Your point, many of those dollars tend to be wasted especially if you're not getting secondary placements or inventory somewhere in the store to support the sale. Which is very difficult by the way for our brands in either frozen or fresh because they typically don't have as many ... When I worked on the beverage side, obviously there were many other options for secondary displays or inventory. Where your stock in frozen is a lot more challenging. We have been able to though in some retailers to get secondary placements on our fresh line, for instance in Whole Food, you'll see our product in their bunkers on a fairly regular basis. Mainly, not even on promotion by the way, just because it sells so well.

But we are actually toying with some ideas of putting coolers out in the stores and things like that that we would invest in in place. So we're looking at those options in terms of getting more inventory out there. But as far as the promotional dollars themselves, we don't promote a lot. We do promote because we know we got to going and I think you made a really good point that discount dollars are really about bringing more people to your product. It's not only about the volume itself. It's really about bringing more people to try your products. So with that in mind, we do do a lot of field marketing sampling because with our product, again, tasting it is a big part of the experience to get consumers to buy it again.

So I would in many case prefer to do a deeper discount occasionally, really a paid sampling of ... You leverage the discounting dollars to get paid sampling, to get people and even if you're not making a lot of money on it, if you're bringing the trial and you don't do it frequently, you do it once or twice a year, you're bringing a lot of new consumers into your brand and hopefully they come back and buy it at a price you've established which is higher where you're not discounting on such a regular basis. So that's kind of my view on how you use discount dollars effectively.

Dan: Well, absolutely. In fact, since we've kind of carved out of the same cloth if you will in terms of our backgrounds, mainstream CPG, et cetera, and understanding a lot of those growth drivers, base sales which are sales in the absence of promotion, that's what you take to the bank. So for anyone listening, why this matters is that if you can grow base sales, sales in the absence of promotion within your brand, that is healthy growth, as opposed to what a lot of brands do where they just wash, rinse and repeat and do the same old promotion over and over and over again and the point being that those dollars are wasted because there's really no creativity around that.

So your ability to leverage that against trials, bring in new customers into the fold so to speak, and then being able to drive traffic in the store, at the end of the day, that's the definition, textbook definition if you will of an effective promotion. So kudos to you guys for being able to leverage that and being able to help the retailers at the same do what they're trying to do in terms of drive category growth and shopper market basket.

Chuck: Yeah. Couldn't agree more with you, Dan. Again, I come from ... I spent much of my career in Coca-Cola so I learned a lot of the hard lessons there so I'm trying to do it right here.

Dan: Absolutely. In fact, again, I love the fact that you've shared this with us. I know we've gotten into a little bit of the weeds but these are the important things that brands need to understand and I do this a little bit in the course and some of the podcasts but to be able to understand what the key drivers are in terms of a consumer and how do you ultimately help the retailer drive category growth and make a reasonable profit at the same time? At the same of the day, that's why we're here. Because without the retailers I partner, then it makes it difficult. Obviously, we can't get our products to consumers. Is there anything you'd like to share that we haven't covered, Chuck?

Chuck: No. I want to thank you though Dan for allowing me to have this conversation with you your listeners.

Dan: No, you're welcome. My privilege.

Chuck: Yeah, and again, we're very excited about where we're at as a company and the direction we're headed in. Yeah, I will add though that as many startups and I'm sure folks who are listening have businesses that the challenge and many of you face it will be operations, I mean, making sure you can get the production capacity up to a place where you're meeting the demand that's happening. Right now, that's been a big challenge for us. We have a wonderful team working on that and we're investing a lot of resources against that because we're in a good position where demand is pushing up against supply. So that will be a challenge that many will face, that's one thing that obviously you want to focus on.

Dan: Absolutely. In fact, on that note, my mission is to help make our healthier way of life more accessible and more affordable. The affordable piece is supply and demand which is exactly what you talked about. So what I mean by that is if we're able to get healthy products on more stores' shelves, it's going to increase, by increasing demand, it's going to increase the cost of getting those products on there, the efficiencies if you will. So thank you for bringing that up. I really appreciate your time, Chuck. Anything else you want to share?

Chuck: No, Dan. Thank you so much. I appreciate your time. Thanks.

Dan: Thank you. I'll look forward to the next time we connect and I'm really looking forward to seeing your new innovation hopefully this summer.

Chuck: Okay.

Dan: Thanks, Chuck.

Chuck: Look for it. It will be out. Thanks. Bye.

Dan: Thanks. Bye. I want to thank Chuck for making time for us today and for coming onto this podcast episode. I will include a link to Beyond Meat in the show notes and on this podcast webpage. During our conversation today, we spent a lot of time talking about how brands need to work close with retailers to help retailers understand what consumers are buying. At the heart of this is the brand story. It's how the brand communicates to the retailer about why their products are unique or different. It's about how the brand communicates and educates the retailer on who their customer is that buys their products. When they buy their products, what other items are they buying. Retailers cannot possibly be experts on every category and every item they sell. They need the brands to step up and take a leadership role in their categories to help them. It's a partnership. It's a partnership that the brand should be initiating.

This is my mission and this is how I give back to the industry. My mission is to make our healthier way of life more accessible. To do that, I created this podcast to help educate brands and retailers on how they need to work together to satisfy the shoppers' needs. At the end of the day, this is all about the shopper. If a shopper can't find what they want at your store, they'll simply go elsewhere. That's why I'm thrilled to share with you again my freebie course of Turnkey Sales Story Strategies to help brands get their products on more retailers' shelves and into the hand of more shoppers. You can learn more about it by going to turnkeysalesstorystrategies.com/growsales. Or you can learn more about it on this podcast webpage and in the show notes at brandsecretsandstrategies.com/session35. I look forward to seeing you in the next show.

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